Date: 2009-10-22 10:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
But he is gay, how can that be OOC for him?

Date: 2009-10-22 11:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I think that he means that given Todd's history of being abused by a man and that Scott wasn't there for him that it's strange he would turn gay.

Date: 2009-10-22 12:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
But people don't "turn" gay.

Date: 2009-10-22 01:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
He has dated women though so I always thought he might be bi?

Anyway, more interesting to me (and I don't believe this has ever been brought up) is what happened to Todd's devout Catholicism which was every-so-often brought up in Infinity Inc? He would even pray the rosary to get over his adopted father's abuse. It would be easy to say he dropped being Catholic when he came out because the two are irreconcilable but that shouldn't necessarily be the case (I can think of the GLTB Catholic group, Dignity, off the top of my head) and he does hang out with a very devout open-minded Catholic in Doc Midnite.

Date: 2009-10-22 05:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
He has dated women though so I always thought he might be bi?

Behavior does not directly correlate to mental state. I've dated and kissed women. That does not stop me from being homosexual.

Date: 2009-10-22 02:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Okay, bad choice of phrasing on my part, how about 'choose' instead.

Date: 2009-10-22 02:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
...they don't choose it either. Anymore than you "chose" to be straight.

Date: 2009-10-22 02:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I agree...but there are exceptions. Anne Heche, anyone?

Date: 2009-10-22 02:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Okay then what is it? I'm a moron when it comes to certain things.

Date: 2009-10-22 04:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
It's like being a brunette or having freckles. It's just something you are, something you're born as, like being born a girl or a boy.

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Date: 2009-10-22 04:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I've seen some good stuff in the past, but THIS was an expert troll. No joke. My hats off to you. Good set up, perfect delivery. You got us good.

Date: 2009-10-23 01:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Agreed. Classic light-the-fuse-and-run.

Date: 2009-10-23 03:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
WHAT? I wasn't even trying to be one.

Date: 2009-10-22 03:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Agreed, though it functionally happens in comic books (in large part to a ban on gays for decades).

Honestly, I just don't buy the writer's justification for turning Todd gay, due to the fact it was based on usual superhero cliches (women troubles) and them willfully not getting a 90s JLA plotline (where Todd confesses his love for Al, but plainly states it's not sexual).

And honestly with Todd, it just seems too damn easy. This guy's supposed to be the angst machine and he turns over a new sexuality leaf seemlessly? Cop. Out.

Date: 2009-10-22 04:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
"Seamlessly"? "Too damn easy"? Did you read JLA/JLI? Seriously, that was an emo clusterfuck of epic proportions. Todd actually tried to commit slow unconscious suicide by metapower, and he was about ready to choke Nuklon for trying to make him fess up to how he felt. If that's easy, I don't want to know what you'd consider hard.

Date: 2009-10-22 05:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yeah, except he wasn't gay in that series. The writer even made a point of expressly stating that.

Date: 2009-10-22 05:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Um, yeah he was. What he said was "ZOMG WHY DO YOU NEED TO LABEL ME." That's not "no, I'm not gay." That is, in fact, exactly the opposite.

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Date: 2009-10-22 04:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I felt that too when writers were making him all-out homosexual. I can see it in his character but it also ignores the fact that he dated several women in the past. Renee Montoya too originally was straight and dated men before Rucka outed her (so to speak) which makes her relationship with Kate in 52 problematic continuity-wise because they had supposedly been in love 10 years or so ago (when Renee was new on the force age-wise) and yet that was the period when canonically she was dating men (of course the Kate Kane in 52 also bares little resemblance to the one Rucka's now writing but that's another story).

I think a lot of it has to do with putting people in easy categories - either "gay" or "straight". How many bi-sexual characters are there in the Big 2? Mikaal/Starman who is an alien (and to whom human sexuality is different than his conception of it) and Daken/Dark Wolvie (who is a murderous scary douchebag) are the only ones I can think of? Anyone else and if not, why not?

Date: 2009-10-22 04:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I can see it in his character but it also ignores the fact that he dated several women in the past.

Well, many gay people date the opposite sex before coming out, so it could be attributed to that, I suppose.

Date: 2009-10-22 05:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yes, I know. Which is why in the end it's not too big a deal(in Todd's case or in Renee's). Now if we had a Tony Stark-ish character whose overt heterosexuality was a major part of the character suddenly switch teams that would be a sign of bad writing and bad characterization.

Date: 2009-10-22 10:48 pm (UTC)
kingrockwell: he's a sexy (Renee Montoya)
From: [personal profile] kingrockwell
Well, #14 if you want to get technical.

Date: 2009-10-22 11:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
He didn't date any women successfully, though. At least one tried to kill him. Sadly, we never really saw any process whereby he came to terms with his sexuality. We got crazy Todd in JL, Dark Todd in JSA, and then suddenly Happy Homo Todd in Manhunter (where the irony of the title wasn't even acknowledged!), with no real "Aha!" moment. Todd's got a LOT of baggage on top of his sexuality. He needs his own series.
There's also the Todd on that other Earth that Power Girl visited. I want someone to write those adventures!

Date: 2009-11-01 04:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]

I read all of those old issues, and it comes across very clearly that if it wasn't for the horrible effort/out-right ban on gay characters - todd would have been gay.

A lot of gay people date people of the same gender until they come to terms with being gay or because they're hiding, or it's expected.


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