Date: 2009-11-07 06:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jcbaggee.insanejournal.com
Oh, so I'm not really behind on the times and this is a new thing DC is throwing in there? Not that I would know either way...

Date: 2009-11-07 07:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rab62.insanejournal.com
Actually, the idea of Doc Savage having a non-caucasian mother has been around since at least 1973, when Philip Jose Farmer mentioned it in his book Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life. Farmer was a fan and his book combines stuff from the original pulps with his own inventions, so in that sense it was "fannish speculation" but at this late date anything anyone says one way or the other can only ever be fan speculation, as Lester Dent is no longer around to ask.

I have to disagree with your previous respondent on one point: I don't believe that Dent would have ruled out the possibility of Doc's mother being a native of Hidalgo, or be horrified at the thought of interracial parentage. Quite the opposite; he was a very progressive guy. But there would have been a lot of trouble trying to print such a story in that era -- which, come to think of it, may be precisely why Dent never spelled out the identity of Doc's mother. If he wanted her to be another race but knew it would never get past the editor, is it unreasonable to think the author might just keep it to himself?

Date: 2009-11-07 08:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cricharddavies.insanejournal.com
Actually, the idea of Doc Savage having a non-caucasian mother has been around since at least 1973, when Philip Jose Farmer mentioned it in his book Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life.

You're mistaken about Farmer; if he mentioned it, and I don't think he did, it was only to raise the idea before dismissing it in favor of his own theories, first articulated in Tarzan Alive. In any event, given that Azzarello is a well-known racist, I doubt that there'll be anything "progressive" about the portrayal of the concept in this book.

Date: 2009-11-07 10:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com
In any event, given that Azzarello is a well-known racist

That's a VERY extreme claim to make about someone, can you cite evidence?

Date: 2009-11-07 08:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cricharddavies.insanejournal.com

His portrayal of Luke Cage as an "anything for hire".

Date: 2009-11-07 08:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com
Has that been stated, or just your reading of his writing?

Date: 2009-11-07 09:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stratosfyr.insanejournal.com
It's been a while since I read it, but his CAGE miniseries was basically made of negative stereotypes. Luke was a total thug. Note the gold teeth and knuckles.

I don't know if that's a good representation of his work, but if I had to judge by that. Eyaagh.

Date: 2009-11-07 11:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] manofbats.insanejournal.com
That was part of Marvel MAX, which is an imprint that was basically built for the purpose of making adult themed comics with established characters, which would no doubt cause controversy if anyone actually cared.

Date: 2009-11-08 04:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] darkknightjrk.insanejournal.com
"Luke was a total thug. Note the gold teeth and knuckles."

And? I'm sorry, but if gold teeth is the pennacle, then Ennis must be a member of the KKK for Barricuda.

Date: 2009-11-08 05:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cricharddavies.insanejournal.com

Ah, well, if other people do it too, it's completely acceptable. Got it. Glad we had this talk.

Date: 2009-11-08 02:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stratosfyr.insanejournal.com
Apples and oranges. Cage, along with the rest of the cast, walked out of a bad music video/Blaxploitation film (which is, fair enough, his origin) into a bad, go-nowhere comic... which really suffers in comparison to his portrayal in Bendis' Alias which was coming out at the same time, despite Luke's portrayal in the first few Alias issues being not so great either.

Barracuda walked out of a prison documentary into a good comic and scared the hell out of everyone by being the mother of all badasses and a criminal genius, subverting some stereotypes and turning the rest of them up to 11. Ennis has a decent track record of using a few elements of stereotypes to build his characters without relying on them exclusively, to the point where the biggest complaint I have about him (OK, on his "serious" stuff like MAX Punisher or Battlefields, not talking stuff like The Boys or MK Punisher which bug me in whole other ways I'm not getting in to) is that Americans just don't use "cunt" that often. A stereotype used well says "This character has a history"; used badly it says "This character is representative of Group X."

Anyway, I'm not saying Azzarello is racist at all, but if I had to judge by CAGE alone, it'd look bad for him. (I have disliked just about everything I've read by him, though. CAGE, first 100 Bullets trade, Batman: Broken City, Superman: For Tomorrow. But that's mostly because they were boring/pretentious.)

Date: 2009-11-07 02:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] manofbats.insanejournal.com
I think you need to back up a claim like that or just not make it at all.

Date: 2009-11-07 09:42 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Yeah, and to make it worse, it's being drawn by well-known child molester Rags Morales.

Date: 2009-11-07 11:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] autolychus2.insanejournal.com
and Nazi party member in good standing -- don't forget that. LOL.

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