mysteryfan.insanejournal.com ([identity profile] mysteryfan.insanejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily,
@ 2009-11-11 02:24 pm UTC
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Entry tags:char: batgirl/oracle/barbara gordon, char: batman/dick grayson, creator: sandu florea, creator: tony daniel, title: batman









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[identity profile] mysteryfan.insanejournal.com
2009-11-12 07:46 pm UTC (link)
And I still think it's not helpful to use labels like 'sluts' and to be so judgmental about clothing. http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-05-22-miniskirtwearing-women-a-magnet-for-violence

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[identity profile] ladymirth.insanejournal.com
2009-11-12 08:07 pm UTC (link)
I'm sorry if you find my thinking that sluts of both genders exist offensive. Also, I come from a fairly conservative culture and I know that people are judged by appearances, whether that's fair or not, and that it's not a good thing to dress like a tramp or in a manner that seems to convey that you're "easy". It's a matter of how much respect you wish to command from those around you. If you don't give a damn that people may think you're promiscous, well knock yourself out. I am of the impression that Helena, having being brought up Catholic and conservative, might mind being taken for a sex object. This is one of the reasons I object to the mid-riff bearing costume. And it's not a moral choice, IMO, because I'm pretty ambivalent about morality, but I DO want to be respected and taken seriously.

However, please don't insult me by using the slippery slope argument that thinking what one wears matters leads to victim-blaming. If a woman can chooses to dress inappropriately and other people view her badly as a consequence, that will be her fault. That's a lack of judgement. But a person's opinions on her moral character should not allow anyone to lay a finger on or harrass her in any way - that's a crime punishable by law.

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[identity profile] mysteryfan.insanejournal.com
2009-11-12 08:21 pm UTC (link)
I'm sorry if you felt insulted. That was not my intention. And I also am coming at this from a different culture, one that probably views this a little differently. I will say that being brought up Catholic has little bearing on what one wears to a party. You could have only Catholics at a party and just like any party, you'd have a wide range of styles represented.

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[identity profile] sistermagpie.insanejournal.com
2009-11-12 08:21 pm UTC (link)
I'm not sure Helena's outfit in this setting would make her come off as promiscuous, actually. As she mentions herself, she's not wearing a trampy outfit, she's wearing an expensive designer dress--just one made for a woman with the body to show it off. One that happens to have a low neckline, but that's not totally unusual. Given that she's young and in excellent shape I don't think her outfit would necessarily read as trampy--it would say something about her personality in that she would choose a dress with that plunging a neckline where others wouldn't choose that style but it probably wouldn't read "slut" so much as "sexy." The front is cut a lot like Selina's bathing suit.

Clearly the artist designed the dress to project that from every angle so when she's got her leg up there's a slit and when she's turned around it's dipping in the back, but when I saw her in the art she didn't look trampy to me. She is dressed appropriately, as she reminds Dick. She doesn't stand out that much.

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[identity profile] mysteryfan.insanejournal.com
2009-11-12 08:42 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for bringing this back to the matter at hand. Yes. She does not come off as promiscuous.

Alfred did well.

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[identity profile] da_reap.insanejournal.com
2009-11-14 07:48 pm UTC (link)
...Yeah, no.

I like seeing skin and am not worrying about sex-worker projection, but that magic dress just looks tacky. Designer tacky, but tacky. Cleavage+backless+leg slit=waaay too much showing.

Frankly, she comes off as "I'm only three martinis away from a Debutantes Gone Wild! video!" Which may work as another type of disguise, but is still lacking entirely in class.

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[identity profile] mysteryfan.insanejournal.com
2009-11-14 08:05 pm UTC (link)
Have you looked at the whole issue? Every other woman at the party is dressed in a "backless" dress with plenty of cleavage and an equal amount of visible skin. (Except Babs. Hers is only "backless".) So however you happen to judge Helena's appearance, she looks like all the other women (12 pictured in the story) at the party.

And like Chipsnopotatoes points out, the slit only shows if she raises up her leg. It's a very voluminous skirt, with lots of fabric.

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[identity profile] da_reap.insanejournal.com
2009-11-14 11:00 pm UTC (link)
Nnnope, I haven't! I've looked at the scan and the scan alone. And from what I've seen on the scan, I feel my point stands; the amount of (what seems forced) titillation is far beyond what I would consider tasteful!

Other people's excesses is no excuse for her own; it just helps highlight an artist who goes way overboard on the skin.

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[identity profile] mysteryfan.insanejournal.com
2009-11-14 11:38 pm UTC (link)
I'd say in this case, what you deem 'other people's excesses' are the reason she has this dress on. I don't think it's about whether the reader personally finds the dress itself tasteful or not. Obviously, taste is subjective. The thing about the story, though, is that she's in disguise at a party where everyone's in similar attire. And Helena acknowledges this herself. She's dressed exactly right for the part she's playing.

The reason I asked if you'd read the whole comic is that the dress and decision of the dress and other related clothing points are addressed in the story--beyond these few selected scans.

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[identity profile] da_reap.insanejournal.com
2009-11-15 02:06 am UTC (link)
I'm sure they are. I'm also sure that the artist decided to go ahead and have EVERYONE at that party dress in tastelessly over-revealing outfits, for just such an argument. But as that's equivalent to hiding a cobra inside a snake pit, I don't think it signifies.

Consider if you had an entire society party drawn by Jim Balent. There would be fabric enough for approximately one person's tasteful outfit spread across twenty-five women, and you know it. Does the sheer number of uberboobed skimpily-dressed females make it appropriate dress for a society party?

Don't think so.

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[identity profile] mysteryfan.insanejournal.com
2009-11-15 02:29 am UTC (link)
Hmm. 'And you know it' and 'Don't think so' are, in my opinion, not appropriate or helpful to this discussion. Especially the 'And you know it'. Nobody else in this entire discussion feels the need to tell another person something so over the top.

It makes me disinclined to have any further discussion with you.

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