box_in_the_box: (Default)
[personal profile] box_in_the_box posting in [community profile] scans_daily
I look forward to seeing the perfect storm of wank calm and rational debate that will ensue in the comments, between competing factions of both superhero comics fans and public policy ideologues.

Superman supports health care and welfare!



From back in the day when Superman used his moral force to say we should do this because it's the right thing to do for our neighbors, never mind if it cost us some tax dollars.

Of course, today he'd be attacked for his position because, after all, he's an illegal immigrant.

And like so many other illegals, we just want him to clean up our messes and do the jobs we can't do for ourselves for non-existent pay, but that doesn't mean we have to acknowledge when he might have a point.

But I could be mistaken. Is there someone out there who can explain why Superman is wrong?

(Hat tip to Kevin H and Wesley Osam.)
This was originally posted online near the end of August, but I don't recall seeing it on this comm, so I thought I'd share it with you all.

Date: 2009-11-23 11:36 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arilou_skiff
Heh, snerch.

Date: 2009-11-23 12:07 pm (UTC)
cmic: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cmic
I like the fact that the man who doesn't support The Public Option uses the phrase "red cent." Socialism!

Date: 2009-11-23 01:04 pm (UTC)
kenn_el: Northstar_Hmm (Default)
From: [personal profile] kenn_el
Superman is NOT an illegal immigrant. I DO agree, however, with Supes taking a Liberal stance, as he ultimately sees humans as weak and unable to fend for themselves without his assistance.

Date: 2009-11-23 02:39 pm (UTC)
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)
From: [personal profile] sistermagpie
But here he's more saying they can help themselves by helping each other.

Date: 2009-11-23 04:56 pm (UTC)
kenn_el: Northstar_Hmm (Default)
From: [personal profile] kenn_el
And he's right, mostly. But look at his condescending (and implicitly threatening) manner toward the guy who protested in the opening panels. The guy doesn't just have the 'wrong slant', but his words might 'infect' the rest of the hive.

Date: 2009-11-23 08:33 pm (UTC)
freezer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] freezer
That's not politics, that's just standard issue Superdickery.

Date: 2009-11-23 03:14 pm (UTC)
halialkers: Raven in Blue hood, glowing white eyes, right hand with palm stretched upward (Default)
From: [personal profile] halialkers
Is there legal procedure to recognize someone born on Krypton as a United States citizen? He is not a human being however much he physically cannot be told apart from one and hence in the context of his arrival his citizenship is dubious. Under the 14th Amendment you have to actually be born in the United States, and birthing matrix != to birth on US soil.

Date: 2009-11-23 03:19 pm (UTC)
404glitch: Kyle's Lantern Symbol (Green Lantern)
From: [personal profile] 404glitch
The UN declared him a citizen of every member-state in it's roster at one point, I think. That said, he's Superman... independent of his citizenship, everyone on the planet thinks of him as "theirs".

On the topic, Superman's optimism fails to take into consideration those that would willfully abuse the system for their own ends.

Date: 2009-11-23 03:21 pm (UTC)
halialkers: Raven in Blue hood, glowing white eyes, right hand with palm stretched upward (Default)
From: [personal profile] halialkers
The same UN that let the Joker be a representative of a member nation in-canon. Hurm.

And I would note that welfare states have actually improved the quality of life in the West for the average citizen of it. The days before them were...less than pleasant, to put it mildly.

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Date: 2009-11-23 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] twigcollins
Superman's optimism fails to take into consideration those that would willfully abuse the system for their own ends.

Are we talking people managing to sneak out health care benefits or evil health care corporations?

Either way, I'd read that comic.

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Date: 2009-11-23 06:00 pm (UTC)
nothingbutcake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nothingbutcake
"On the topic, Superman's optimism fails to take into consideration those that would willfully abuse the system for their own ends."

Compared with the low uptake rate of services, where the number of people who qualify for services is much higher than the number of people who do receive services?

Social services have many other problems to address before it needs to address the minority that abuses it.

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Date: 2009-11-23 03:25 pm (UTC)
jarodrussell: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jarodrussell
I think it's more of a loophole than the idea he was "born" on U.S. soil. By all accounts that I remember, the Kents claim him as their biological son, so if they applied for and acquired a social security number for him, got a signed birth certificate, etc. then he probably is technically a U.S. citizen, even though the basis is fraudulent. Sort of like, "It's not a crime if you don't get caught."

Date: 2009-11-23 03:25 pm (UTC)
halialkers: Raven in Blue hood, glowing white eyes, right hand with palm stretched upward (Default)
From: [personal profile] halialkers
Which would be entertaining if he ever ran for President, then there would actually *be* a basis for Birtherism. And that is why Clark Kent would never be President.

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Date: 2009-11-23 04:51 pm (UTC)
kenn_el: Northstar_Hmm (Default)
From: [personal profile] kenn_el
Whatever legal papers establish him as Clark Kent also contain his citizenship status. The Daily Planet probably did a background check, as did his schools.

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Date: 2009-11-23 06:03 pm (UTC)
darkblade: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darkblade
I don't recall the Kent's taking him through imigration to become a legal citizen. So he would still be considered an illegal immigrant. Particularly since his secret identity is that of someone who was supposedly born in the US.

Although the government would be incredibly stupid to not grant him citizenship if he wanted considering how often he saved their asses and Krypton blowing up would most likely qualify him for refugee status.

Date: 2009-11-23 06:15 pm (UTC)
kenn_el: Northstar_Hmm (Default)
From: [personal profile] kenn_el
I assume that Kents' legal maneuvering wasn't considered exciting enough for an issue's focus, but Clark HAS to have legal documents in order to have gone to public schools and to be employed (Part of the problem with Superman's timelessness; in the decades of his origin, documentation was not as rigid). Considering that the DCU has taken a legal stand on Kryptonians (which is absurd, as there is no enforcement arm), Kal-El could get an international visa separate from Clark, but Clark has to be an American citizen in order to be employed at the Planet.

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Date: 2009-11-23 07:33 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Post-Crisis he was believed to be Martha's natural child, born whilst the farm was cut off for months by the worst blizzard in decades. And Martha and Jonathan didn't think he was alien for years, they thought he was the lucky survivor of some freaky experimental spaceshot by the godless Russians (who else would be inhuman enough to put a baby into a rocketship?).

Clark didn't develop powers for some years, so whilst a fraud WAS perpetrated, they thought they were acting in the best interests of the child.

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Date: 2009-11-23 09:39 pm (UTC)
aaron_bourque: default (Default)
From: [personal profile] aaron_bourque
he ultimately sees humans as weak and unable to fend for themselves without his assistance.

}:[

No.

That's neither Superman's philosophy, nor that of Liberals.

Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; I'm probably more conservative than most people here, but damn, son. What the hell.

Date: 2009-11-23 10:06 pm (UTC)
galateus: (AFO Baby)
From: [personal profile] galateus
Seriously. Besides: Who runs the government in Strawman Land, robots?
Edited Date: 2009-11-23 10:07 pm (UTC)

Date: 2009-11-23 10:41 pm (UTC)
da_reap: (Scythe)
From: [personal profile] da_reap
Hmm.

Did he ever get officially naturalized? Otherwise...

Date: 2009-11-23 11:58 pm (UTC)
skjam: Man in blue suit and fedora, wearing an eyeless mask emblazoned with the scales of justice (Default)
From: [personal profile] skjam
Of course Stanton is against giving money to hospitals. As a mutant with immunity to all diseases and a healing factor that rivals Wolverine's, he's more than capable of "taking care of himself."

The immigrant stuff reminds me of a Darwin Jones story from Strange Adventures--an alien who intends to conquer his home planet has arrived on Earth to gather the necessary weapons, and Jones attempts to find some excuse to jail the conqueror to prevent this.

The first thing he and his aide try is the "illegal alien" option--only to learn that this particular alien has proof positive that he was actually born (live birth) in the United States when his parents had a forced landing.

Date: 2009-11-24 03:50 am (UTC)
ladymirth: The Goddamn Batman Disapproves of your Sparkly Shenanigans (batman disapproves)
From: [personal profile] ladymirth
No, no, no I refuse to get into the douchebaggery that is the healthcare/welfare debate on scans_daily! COMICS ARE MY HAPPY PLACE, PPL!

...you know you're life is screwed up when comics are your happy place.

Date: 2009-11-24 03:51 am (UTC)
darkblade: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darkblade
There are many worse things to have as one's happy place.

Date: 2009-11-24 04:31 am (UTC)
zegim: wolvie_tear (wolvie_tear)
From: [personal profile] zegim
Oh, joy. *This* topic.

I'm not american and even I know this always ends in "fun time for everyone".

Date: 2009-11-24 09:37 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex
I swear, some of the nitwits originally responding to this. 'WELFARE IS SOCIALISM, AND SOCIALISM IS BAAAAAAAAD! USA, LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!' Bleh. Ninnyhammers. Sure, it works for just about the rest of the entire world, but that's no reason why WE should have it, because... because... SOCIALISM! DIRTY RED SCUM!
As for the issue of whether or not Supes is a citizen, I think that's missing the point. Whether or not he's a citizen, he has a perfect right to speak his opinion on something. Sure, some indignant type could get up and say 'who are YOU to tell me these thing? You're not even an American!', and the crowd would go 'GASP!', but Superman could simply say 'first off, yes I AM an American in all the ways that count - I've lived here my whole life, and been raised with in the culture and with the values of America - and secondly, what difference would it make if I weren't? I've been asked to speak on this subject BY Americans, the subject is one that AFFECTS Americans, and all you listening to this are Americans, so it doesn't matter in the slightest if I, personally, am not technically an American. The point is how this will affect YOU, not me - I'm saying it for your benefit, and my word must carry at least a little weight with you, or you wouldn't be here in the first place. You're perfectly within your rights not to believe me or listen to me, of course, but if you didn't want to hear it, you shouldn't have come.'

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