box_in_the_box: (Default)
Shooting You with My Smile ([personal profile] box_in_the_box) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2009-11-23 02:19 am

Comics wank colliding with political wank: Like matter and anti-matter ...

I look forward to seeing the perfect storm of wank calm and rational debate that will ensue in the comments, between competing factions of both superhero comics fans and public policy ideologues.

Superman supports health care and welfare!



From back in the day when Superman used his moral force to say we should do this because it's the right thing to do for our neighbors, never mind if it cost us some tax dollars.

Of course, today he'd be attacked for his position because, after all, he's an illegal immigrant.

And like so many other illegals, we just want him to clean up our messes and do the jobs we can't do for ourselves for non-existent pay, but that doesn't mean we have to acknowledge when he might have a point.

But I could be mistaken. Is there someone out there who can explain why Superman is wrong?

(Hat tip to Kevin H and Wesley Osam.)
This was originally posted online near the end of August, but I don't recall seeing it on this comm, so I thought I'd share it with you all.
kenn_el: Northstar_Hmm (Default)

[personal profile] kenn_el 2009-11-23 01:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Superman is NOT an illegal immigrant. I DO agree, however, with Supes taking a Liberal stance, as he ultimately sees humans as weak and unable to fend for themselves without his assistance.
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)

[personal profile] sistermagpie 2009-11-23 02:39 pm (UTC)(link)
But here he's more saying they can help themselves by helping each other.
kenn_el: Northstar_Hmm (Default)

[personal profile] kenn_el 2009-11-23 04:56 pm (UTC)(link)
And he's right, mostly. But look at his condescending (and implicitly threatening) manner toward the guy who protested in the opening panels. The guy doesn't just have the 'wrong slant', but his words might 'infect' the rest of the hive.
freezer: (Default)

[personal profile] freezer 2009-11-23 08:33 pm (UTC)(link)
That's not politics, that's just standard issue Superdickery.
halialkers: Raven in Blue hood, glowing white eyes, right hand with palm stretched upward (Default)

[personal profile] halialkers 2009-11-23 03:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Is there legal procedure to recognize someone born on Krypton as a United States citizen? He is not a human being however much he physically cannot be told apart from one and hence in the context of his arrival his citizenship is dubious. Under the 14th Amendment you have to actually be born in the United States, and birthing matrix != to birth on US soil.
404glitch: Kyle's Lantern Symbol (Green Lantern)

[personal profile] 404glitch 2009-11-23 03:19 pm (UTC)(link)
The UN declared him a citizen of every member-state in it's roster at one point, I think. That said, he's Superman... independent of his citizenship, everyone on the planet thinks of him as "theirs".

On the topic, Superman's optimism fails to take into consideration those that would willfully abuse the system for their own ends.
halialkers: Raven in Blue hood, glowing white eyes, right hand with palm stretched upward (Default)

[personal profile] halialkers 2009-11-23 03:21 pm (UTC)(link)
The same UN that let the Joker be a representative of a member nation in-canon. Hurm.

And I would note that welfare states have actually improved the quality of life in the West for the average citizen of it. The days before them were...less than pleasant, to put it mildly.
jarodrussell: (Default)

[personal profile] jarodrussell 2009-11-23 03:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't think anyone (within reason, obviously some would) would deny that welfare states have improved the quality of life. It's the sustainability of that quality that causes concerns. History has shown that empirical falls are usually preceded by such welfare states.

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 16:01 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] jarodrussell - 2009-11-23 16:12 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 16:26 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] twigcollins - 2009-11-23 16:43 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 16:46 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] twigcollins - 2009-11-23 16:54 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 17:02 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] khamelea - 2009-11-23 21:59 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-24 02:13 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] jarodrussell - 2009-11-23 18:59 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] arilou_skiff - 2009-11-23 17:41 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 18:27 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] arilou_skiff - 2009-11-23 20:44 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-24 02:17 (UTC) - Expand
johnzdrake: (Default)

[personal profile] johnzdrake 2009-11-23 03:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah, the Joker in the UN... And that wasn't even the Silver Age...

Not to mention the fact that this is a world where Lex Luthor gets elected president. When everyone knows in the real world he could only be vice president.

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 16:03 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] thokstar - 2009-11-23 16:32 (UTC) - Expand

[personal profile] twigcollins 2009-11-23 04:50 pm (UTC)(link)
Superman's optimism fails to take into consideration those that would willfully abuse the system for their own ends.

Are we talking people managing to sneak out health care benefits or evil health care corporations?

Either way, I'd read that comic.
404glitch: (Yuki)

[personal profile] 404glitch 2009-11-24 02:09 am (UTC)(link)
Both, actually.
nothingbutcake: (Default)

[personal profile] nothingbutcake 2009-11-23 06:00 pm (UTC)(link)
"On the topic, Superman's optimism fails to take into consideration those that would willfully abuse the system for their own ends."

Compared with the low uptake rate of services, where the number of people who qualify for services is much higher than the number of people who do receive services?

Social services have many other problems to address before it needs to address the minority that abuses it.

(no subject)

[personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - 2009-11-24 08:55 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] nothingbutcake - 2009-11-24 09:28 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - 2009-11-24 12:16 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] nothingbutcake - 2009-11-24 13:33 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - 2009-11-24 22:19 (UTC) - Expand
jarodrussell: (Default)

[personal profile] jarodrussell 2009-11-23 03:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I think it's more of a loophole than the idea he was "born" on U.S. soil. By all accounts that I remember, the Kents claim him as their biological son, so if they applied for and acquired a social security number for him, got a signed birth certificate, etc. then he probably is technically a U.S. citizen, even though the basis is fraudulent. Sort of like, "It's not a crime if you don't get caught."
halialkers: Raven in Blue hood, glowing white eyes, right hand with palm stretched upward (Default)

[personal profile] halialkers 2009-11-23 03:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Which would be entertaining if he ever ran for President, then there would actually *be* a basis for Birtherism. And that is why Clark Kent would never be President.

(no subject)

[personal profile] jarodrussell - 2009-11-23 15:31 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] gargoylekitty - 2009-11-23 16:34 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - 2009-11-24 08:59 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] galateus - 2009-11-24 13:35 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - 2009-11-24 22:20 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] pyrotwilight - 2009-11-23 16:41 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] icon_uk - 2009-11-23 19:23 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] pyrotwilight - 2009-11-23 20:50 (UTC) - Expand
darkblade: (Default)

[personal profile] darkblade 2009-11-23 06:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't know about US laws but in Canada you need a blood test on home births for a birth certificate from a home birth. Clark wouldn't pass a blood test matching him to the Kent's.

(no subject)

[personal profile] kingrockwell - 2009-11-23 19:50 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] darkblade - 2009-11-23 19:53 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] kamino_neko - 2009-11-23 20:58 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] darkblade - 2009-11-23 21:12 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - 2009-11-24 09:03 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] darkblade - 2009-11-24 16:23 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - 2009-11-24 22:30 (UTC) - Expand
kenn_el: Northstar_Hmm (Default)

[personal profile] kenn_el 2009-11-23 04:51 pm (UTC)(link)
Whatever legal papers establish him as Clark Kent also contain his citizenship status. The Daily Planet probably did a background check, as did his schools.
halialkers: Raven in Blue hood, glowing white eyes, right hand with palm stretched upward (Default)

[personal profile] halialkers 2009-11-23 06:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Except Clark Kent is technically like Tarzan, Lord of the Apes: Tarzan was still Lord Greystoke and aware of it or not, Superman was still not biologically human. It would be a surprise if he even necessarily had the same A-G-T-C basis as Earth life.

(no subject)

[personal profile] darkblade - 2009-11-23 18:47 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 19:03 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] darkblade - 2009-11-23 19:11 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 19:13 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] kenn_el - 2009-11-23 18:56 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 19:05 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] kenn_el - 2009-11-23 19:28 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 19:32 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] icon_uk - 2009-11-23 19:28 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] kenn_el - 2009-11-23 19:46 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 19:48 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] kenn_el - 2009-11-23 19:50 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] icon_uk - 2009-11-23 19:53 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] kenn_el - 2009-11-23 19:58 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] squirrama - 2009-11-24 21:38 (UTC) - Expand
darkblade: (Default)

[personal profile] darkblade 2009-11-23 06:03 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't recall the Kent's taking him through imigration to become a legal citizen. So he would still be considered an illegal immigrant. Particularly since his secret identity is that of someone who was supposedly born in the US.

Although the government would be incredibly stupid to not grant him citizenship if he wanted considering how often he saved their asses and Krypton blowing up would most likely qualify him for refugee status.
kenn_el: Northstar_Hmm (Default)

[personal profile] kenn_el 2009-11-23 06:15 pm (UTC)(link)
I assume that Kents' legal maneuvering wasn't considered exciting enough for an issue's focus, but Clark HAS to have legal documents in order to have gone to public schools and to be employed (Part of the problem with Superman's timelessness; in the decades of his origin, documentation was not as rigid). Considering that the DCU has taken a legal stand on Kryptonians (which is absurd, as there is no enforcement arm), Kal-El could get an international visa separate from Clark, but Clark has to be an American citizen in order to be employed at the Planet.
darkblade: (Default)

[personal profile] darkblade 2009-11-23 06:26 pm (UTC)(link)
But Clark is a non-entity alias of Kal-El who is not a born American citizen.

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 18:32 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] darkblade - 2009-11-23 18:34 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 18:38 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] darkblade - 2009-11-23 18:44 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 18:48 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] kenn_el - 2009-11-23 18:57 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 19:06 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] sistermagpie - 2009-11-23 21:53 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 22:46 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] jarodrussell - 2009-11-23 19:05 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] kenn_el - 2009-11-23 18:33 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 18:37 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] kenn_el - 2009-11-23 18:45 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 18:47 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] darkblade - 2009-11-23 18:43 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-23 18:46 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] jarodrussell - 2009-11-23 18:58 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] kenn_el - 2009-11-23 18:50 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] galateus - 2009-11-23 22:04 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] sistermagpie - 2009-11-24 01:40 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-24 02:22 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] sistermagpie - 2009-11-24 02:28 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] galateus - 2009-11-24 02:37 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] sistermagpie - 2009-11-24 02:49 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] galateus - 2009-11-24 02:54 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-24 02:42 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] sistermagpie - 2009-11-24 02:48 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] halialkers - 2009-11-24 02:57 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] sistermagpie - 2009-11-24 03:11 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - 2009-11-24 09:16 (UTC) - Expand
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2009-11-23 07:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Post-Crisis he was believed to be Martha's natural child, born whilst the farm was cut off for months by the worst blizzard in decades. And Martha and Jonathan didn't think he was alien for years, they thought he was the lucky survivor of some freaky experimental spaceshot by the godless Russians (who else would be inhuman enough to put a baby into a rocketship?).

Clark didn't develop powers for some years, so whilst a fraud WAS perpetrated, they thought they were acting in the best interests of the child.
darkblade: (Default)

[personal profile] darkblade 2009-11-23 07:35 pm (UTC)(link)
I never said they weren't acting in his best interest merely that if his citizenship were to be put under any real legal scrutiny that it wouldn't hold up.

(no subject)

[personal profile] tsunamiwombat - 2009-11-23 20:07 (UTC) - Expand
aaron_bourque: default (Default)

[personal profile] aaron_bourque 2009-11-23 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
he ultimately sees humans as weak and unable to fend for themselves without his assistance.

}:[

No.

That's neither Superman's philosophy, nor that of Liberals.

Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; I'm probably more conservative than most people here, but damn, son. What the hell.
galateus: (AFO Baby)

[personal profile] galateus 2009-11-23 10:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Seriously. Besides: Who runs the government in Strawman Land, robots?
Edited 2009-11-23 22:07 (UTC)
da_reap: (Scythe)

[personal profile] da_reap 2009-11-23 10:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Hmm.

Did he ever get officially naturalized? Otherwise...