scans_daily: Trial of the Leader: She-Hulk witness for the prosecution

espanolbot (

espanolbot) wrote in

scans_daily,
@ 2009-12-01 12:05 am UTC

Entry tags:

char: leader/samuel sterns, char: she hulk/jennifer walters, publisher: marvel comics, title: she-hulk

Trial of the Leader: She-Hulk witness for the prosecution

The Leader is on trial on very supervillaining charges, and is using the excuse that gamma radiation-induced mutation causes your judgement to be eroded.

It does appear to hold some water, as otherwise it implies that Brucewas going around smashing tanks and stuff on purpose.

Anyway, Jenny is called to the stand, leading to the dodgiest invasion of privacy in a courtroom since that lawyer revealled Veronica Mar's confidential health records on court TV.

Hm, I know that this kinda makes sense to reveal, plus it does enforce the Leader's defence, but isn't that against the rules to go into that much detail into someone's sex life?

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	no subject taggerung301 2009-12-01 12:27 am UTC (link)
	I dunno about the legality of this, but jesus, that's a horrible thing to do to someone (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 12 comments) (Show 12 comments)

	no subject espanolbot 2009-12-01 12:29 am UTC (link)
	I think that the size of her boobs was used as a matter of public record too in a trial at one time. Which is also a cheap shot really. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 3 comments) (Show 3 comments)

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box_in_the_box, 2009-12-01 01:05 am UTC (Expand)

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alphamonkey, 2009-12-01 06:59 pm UTC (Expand)

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da_reap, 2009-12-02 02:04 am UTC (Expand)

	no subject sailorlibra 2009-12-01 12:30 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, Mallory's sort of a bitch. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 7 comments) (Show 7 comments)

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neuhallidae, 2009-12-01 01:05 am UTC (Expand)

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box_in_the_box, 2009-12-01 01:07 am UTC (Expand)

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lamashtar, 2009-12-01 05:40 am UTC (Expand)

Showing my ignorance of the end of her arc: -

box_in_the_box, 2009-12-01 09:47 am UTC (Expand)

Re: Showing my ignorance of the end of her arc: -

404glitch, 2009-12-01 03:05 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: Showing my ignorance of the end of her arc: -

alphamonkey, 2009-12-01 07:03 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: Showing my ignorance of the end of her arc: -

404glitch, 2009-12-01 09:36 pm UTC (Expand)

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colonel_green
2009-12-01 12:31 am UTC (link)

It's of dubious legal merit in a real court, but then, when you start comparing one of these metafiction-heavy courts to a real court that's the least of your problems. In this story, for example, the big danger is that the Leader will be declared essentially insane and thus not responsible for his actions...a determination that would just lead to him being locked up in a mental institution for the rest of his life, but everybody acts like he'll be wandering around the streets committing crimes carte blanche. It's just comedy.

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Yeah, no, sorry, nothing funny here.

box_in_the_box
2009-12-01 01:02 am UTC (link)

It's just comedy.

No, "comedy" was when they admitted the testimony of a ghost, based on the fact that half the universe was killed by Thanos once, or even the fact that comic books are considered legal evidence in the Marvel Universe.

This? This is the apex of Dan Slott's increasingly creepy fixation with portraying She-Hulk's sex-life as something that she should be embarrassed of, no matter WHAT she does.

CHECK OUT THE VIRGIN/WHORE DICHOTOMY ON DISPLAY - when she's She-Hulk, she's not just sexually active, but she's such a "slut" that it takes 20 minutes for her to list all of her sex partners! When she's Jennifer Walters, she's such a "prude" that she's only had sex with three people! HAR HAR HAR!

This is how the virgin/whore dichotomy nails women, both real and fictional - if you have an active libido, then you're a loose floozy, and if you're more reserved, then you're a frigid bitch. It's a literal no-win situation, because her sexuality is treated as something that's inherently shameful in BOTH cases, whether she's a "virgin" OR a "whore," and to see it passed off as comedy here, with absolutely NO acknowledgment of what a PROFOUND violation it is to put a woman's sex life on trial (see also: every defense argument that says "she really wanted it") is pretty goddamn sickening to me.

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Re: Yeah, no, sorry, nothing funny here. -

halialkers, 2009-12-01 01:41 am UTC (Expand)

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box_in_the_box, 2009-12-01 03:24 am UTC (Expand)

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randyripoff, 2009-12-01 04:09 am UTC (Expand)

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halialkers, 2009-12-01 12:48 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: Yeah, no, sorry, nothing funny here. -

lamashtar, 2009-12-01 05:44 am UTC (Expand)

Re: Yeah, no, sorry, nothing funny here. -

schmevil, 2009-12-01 06:31 pm UTC (Expand)

Yes on all counts. -

box_in_the_box, 2009-12-01 06:57 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: Yes on all counts. -

schmevil, 2009-12-02 01:05 am UTC (Expand)

Re: Yeah, no, sorry, nothing funny here. -

thehood, 2010-06-08 09:50 pm UTC (Expand)

	no subject jarodrussell 2009-12-01 12:38 am UTC (link)
	Where's Mentok when you need him? (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 3 comments) (Show 3 comments)

	no subject sherkahn 2009-12-01 12:58 am UTC (link)
	"ooooo-wwwwwwwwwweeeooooooo!!!!!" (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

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jarodrussell, 2009-12-01 01:03 am UTC (Expand)

	no subject colonel_green 2009-12-01 01:33 am UTC (link)
	I read that as "Mentos" the first time. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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icon_uk
2009-12-01 12:42 am UTC (link)

Reminds me of the episode of Boston Legal where the James Spader character essentially destroys an innocent, and rather sad, man's entire self image by humiliating him before the trial, in order to bully him into NOT giving evidence that would lead to his ultra-rich client being convicted of the shoplifting charge she WAS guilty of.

Apparently we were supposed to be impressed by this, and the fact that he apparently wouldn't enjoy doing it, but would anyway, was a mitigating factor. It's hard to be rooting for the series main hero when all you want to do is kick him in the nuts repeatedly with steel toed boots. James Woods in Shark at least never pretended to be NICE.

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	no subject daningram.insanejournal.com 2009-12-01 12:50 am UTC (link)
	In all fairness, Alan has shown a deep regret for his pathological need to win, and he hardly makes a habit of abusing potential witnesses. What he did to that guy, he did in private for a reason. Shore's no saint, but I think he can be fairly nice on a regular basis. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 9 comments) (Show 9 comments)

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icon_uk, 2009-12-01 12:57 am UTC (Expand)

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daningram.insanejournal.com, 2009-12-01 01:05 am UTC (Expand)

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icon_uk, 2009-12-01 01:10 am UTC (Expand)

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daningram.insanejournal.com, 2009-12-01 01:18 am UTC (Expand)

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janegray, 2009-12-03 08:12 pm UTC (Expand)

	no subject halialkers 2009-12-01 01:41 am UTC (link)
	Motto. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject midnightvoyager 2009-12-01 03:44 pm UTC (link)
	Guh- WHAT? Aaaand another show on my Do Not Watch list. Jesus. I think my face is stuck in a DO NOT WANT position. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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icon_uk
2009-12-01 12:52 am UTC (link)

Reading this again, I have to ask "What sort of lawyer is there on the other side who WOULDN'T object on Jennifer's behalf here?" because the entire line of argument is fallacious.

So She-Hulk enjoys sex... Yes? And? She's already said she's more uninhibited as She-Hulk. Her partners are all willing adults who she had consensual sex with. I fail to see how this could be used as proof of a fundamental personality change, given her already stated comment about her actions when in She-Hulk form.

Even then she's spent years STUCK in She-Hulk form, in fact she's probably spent a good deal more of her life as a sexually active woman as She-Hulk than Jen Walters, and was a lot younger when she was sexually active as Jen so any argument would be, essentially moot.

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	FUCKING THANK YOU. box_in_the_box 2009-12-01 01:04 am UTC (link)
	The puritanical attitudes that Slott demonstrated with increasing frequency during this title's run should have been a warning sign to me, but I was blinded by the fact that a lot of his early stuff really was funny. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject kingrockwell 2009-12-01 03:37 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, the fact she was stuck in the form for years was something that bugged me about this scene. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject halialkers 2009-12-01 01:39 am UTC (link)
	Am I the only one puzzled by how we are to expect superheroes to be chaste at the same time as so many female superheroes provide er....fanservice? And why fictional characters having sex lives is supposed to be a bad thing? (Reply to this) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 4 comments) (Show 4 comments)

	no subject tsunamiwombat 2009-12-01 02:00 am UTC (link)
	If Hypocrisy had to make sense it wouldn't be hypocrisy. DEEPLY offensive stuff, man or woman. Could the leader be, I dunno, telepathically manipulating the people there to prevent objection? (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

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halialkers, 2009-12-01 02:13 am UTC (Expand)

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jfurioso, 2009-12-01 01:44 pm UTC (Expand)

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nagaoka
2009-12-01 02:02 am UTC (link)

Yeah I'm not really buying the lawyer's point here. What, Jen has more luck when she's a large, buxom, green skinned woman? Or perhaps she's more confident when she's physically stronger and taller or in her "superhero" persona. How is that really showing lack of judgment?

Kinda not liking how Jen's acting here either. Shouldn't she be more apt at making her case? I mean, first she uses the word "uninhibited" which just sends red flags no matter the context. I can sort of excuse how flustered she gets out of humiliation but even so....and even if she couldn't object then where's the defense attorney? Even if it were legal to go into that much detail, I doubt it was even remotely necessary to actually name everyone.

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	no subject hatman 2009-12-01 02:11 am UTC (link)
	Not much to add to the comments above, but thought I'd mention for the record that Jennifer didn't sleep with Juggernaut. It was a running gag for several issues (people spreading the rumor, Jennifer angrily denying it) until the truth was revealed as part of a larger interdimensional scheme. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 4 comments) (Show 4 comments)

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mugiwara
2009-12-01 02:24 am UTC (link)

This retcon was the only single thing I hated in Slott's She Hulk. Juggernaut was a good guy at this point and Jen was acting like if she slept with Dr Doom.
Fortunately, Slott made a little mistake when True Jen stated that False Jen didn't know anything about meta-human laws. But the She Hulk who represented Juggernaut had to know about those laws. So it was the true one. Juggy just slept with both Jennifers and the true one is still denying it. :p

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hatman, 2009-12-01 04:54 pm UTC (Expand)

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thehood, 2010-06-08 09:38 pm UTC (Expand)

	no subject dalf 2009-12-01 03:23 am UTC (link)
	...Am I the only one who thinks that Jen looks better on his normal self than as She-Hulk? ._. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 4 comments) (Show 4 comments)

	no subject sailorlibra 2009-12-01 05:28 am UTC (link)
	I think it depends on whether you prefer large, buxom women or petite, slim women. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

If given the choice ... -

box_in_the_box, 2009-12-01 07:08 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: If given the choice ... -

yaseen101, 2009-12-24 02:17 pm UTC (Expand)

:D -

lamashtar, 2009-12-01 05:53 am UTC (Expand)

	no subject silverzeo 2009-12-01 03:42 am UTC (link)
	... what does this have to do with anything? And I thought Mel was more Anti-Semitic than racist. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject kingrockwell 2009-12-01 03:41 pm UTC (link)
	Anti-semitism is a form of racism. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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liara_shadowsong
2009-12-01 03:51 am UTC (link)

*sigh* Shall I make the argument that Jen would have made if she wasn't so angry at the defense lawyer? Correlation is not causation. Yes, she had sex with significantly more men in the form of She-Hulk than Jennifer Walters. Whoop de frigging do. She spent years only or mostly in her She-Hulk form, which includes a rather good-sized chunk of her years as a sexually active adult. Just because she enjoys sex and seems to have much better luck with men in one form than the other absolutely does not mean that she is "under the influence" of anything. Bruce acts differently between his forms because he has Dissociative Identity Disorder, with one personality primarily attached to each form. That doesn't apply to other persons in a similar physical circumstance such as Jen or the Leader - or Doc Samson, for another example. "Less inhibited" doesn't have to mean in a manner as though affected by alcohol; it seems here to mean that she feels more confidant and able to express herself in her superhero persona. Therefore, the entire argument of the defense is completely null and void. Also, I'm pretty sure Juggernaut was a good guy in the comic shown, so I fail to see what the problem is. Fictional-lawyer-lady's argument is made of fail. Yep.

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	no subject sailorlibra 2009-12-01 05:30 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, Dan Slott's run on She-Hulk had some really nice moments... And it also had a lot of moments of epic fail. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

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tsunamiwombat
2009-12-01 07:11 am UTC (link)

I happen to think Leader is manipulating all of this physically/via Xanatos Chess personally.

One of the Leader's biggest flaws is his big head. No, not the- ..uhm, yeah, I mean he's proud. Very Proud. -ARROGANT-

This figure feels he is the most qualified to LEAD the world. That he is an intellectual GOD. And we're expected to believe he would willingly plea insane, willingly admit that he is mentally deficient or inferior to the common man somehow to the degree he cannot discern right from wrong or control his actions? No. Leader would never do that.

What I believe, and what I will countinue to think as this writing gets worse and worse, is that Leader is taking the piss out of everyone. He'll argue himself down to an insanity plea, say HAHA I WAS IN FULL CONTROL THE WHOLE TIME, and then level something with a Deathray he cleverly muled in his anus. Or something.

(Reply to this)

	no subject khamelea 2009-12-01 09:42 am UTC (link)
	Slut-shaming via fictional character disguised as comedy, yaaay. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject neuhallidae 2009-12-01 05:02 pm UTC (link)
	Whoooo. ::gag:: (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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ashez2ashes
2009-12-02 02:46 am UTC (link)

I really don't get why everyone thinks this is slut shaming. You're not supposed to be taking Mallory's side here. She's obviously being unprofessional and using her case to get back at a woman she has it in for by trying to give her bad PR. This isn't being portrayed as a good thing.

It also shows a theme that reoccured throughout the series of how difficult it is to be superhero and a lawyer and how the two can sometimes be incompatible. If Jen wasn't the superheroine She-Hulk Mallory woluldn't have brought jen's sex life up. But being a 'celebrity' has allowed Mallory to turn the court into a circus.

This storyline was also derailed by Slott leaving the title, so we never got to see the real resolution to this storyline.

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Trial of the Leader: She-Hulk witness for the prosecution

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Yeah, no, sorry, nothing funny here.

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FUCKING THANK YOU.

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