One page from Gotham City Sirens 8

[benicio127]

This is interesting.

It is, to my recollection -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- one of the few times (if not the only time) the Joker has appeared to utter some kind of semblance of remorse.

I'm not sure how I feel about this yet...





It's a play on her Mad Love origins, obviously. But unlike the note she receives from the Joker at the end of Mad Love (which was just "Feel better soon," this one has some "remorse" to it. There's manipulation, obviously, of course he wants her to come back.

But if the Joker can exhibit some form of remorse, would that not make him... more sane?

It might just be a throw-away scene, but I thought it was interesting.

Suggested tags: Poison Ivy/Pamela Isley, Harley Quinn/Harleen Quinzel, the Joker, Title: Gotham City Sirens, creator: Guillem March

Comments

[punishermax]

It's probably just him being a dickhead. Like he meant "I'm sorry.....I DIDN'T HIT YOU HARDER!"

[benicio127]

Hah! It's possible. It seemed to be playing on the Mad Love origins, though.

[akodo_rokku]

I don't think it's remorse or dickishness, but manipulation. Mr. J knows what just to say to keep Harley coming back for more.

[thanekos]

" Stop.. stop... stop me if you've heard this one.. "

[jaybee3]

I like the idea that the Joker, like Solomon Grundy, always keeps coming back with different personalities. For instance, all clues point to the next Morrison bringing back Mr. J as completely different than the tongue-splitting guy in R.I.P.

But yeah, back to the issue, I actually think that even if she (Pam) realizes it or not Harley's love for her (or whatever it is) is the only thing that keeps her somewhat human. I mean, take away Harley and there's no way Selina and Ivy are staying civil, let alone living together.

[benicio127]

I actually think that even if she (Pam) realizes it or not Harley's love for her (or whatever it is) is the only thing that keeps her somewhat human.

You're right, I think it does....
I guess Ivy doesn't seem to think so, though. At the end of the story, Ivy says, while thinking of Harley looking at this note from the Joker: "I have seen love. It's a burden more than a joy."

[icon_uk]

For instance, all clues point to the next Morrison bringing back Mr. J as completely different than the tongue-splitting guy in R.I.P.

Out of curiosity, what evidence?

[jaybee3]

Morrison's own words. He basically said that (in order to justify Morrison's own view that all Bat stories are in continuity in some way and thus can explain why the Joker was less violent in the Adam West 60s comics) that the Joker doesn't have one set persona and that next time he (Morrison) writes he won't necessarily be the same as he wrote him in R.I.P. (I'm placing bets Mistah J is really Obreron Sexton myself).

[suzene]

Ugh. The fact that one of the more popular female characters in DC's stable had slavish devotion to an abusive lover as her defining characteristic always squicked me a bit. The further they take her from that, the better I like her.

[q99]

Yea, I'm pretty much the same. Harley and Ivy work so much better than Harley and Joker.

As an origin, sure, but she's evolved enough that she should be stand-alone or with a full partner, not as a side kick.

[jlbarnett]

part of what makes her popular is people keep hoping she'll get a clue and get away. And the instability of both of them make it easier to keep it from seeming like a normal abusive relationship.

[benicio127]

I actually think that even if she (Pam) realizes it or not Harley's love for her (or whatever it is) is the only thing that keeps her somewhat human.

Exactly. They're both insane. It's hard to put it into the "normal" abusive relationship box.

[zordboy]

He's the Joker. There's really only so many places relationships with his supporting cast can go, and none of them are happy-fun-time.

[okkult3000]

Harley wouldn't be so popular without the insane abusive relationship. That's where she came from.

[darkknightjrk]

To be fair, though, the page is from a flashback, and she's pretty much been splits with Joker since Morrison's text issue of Batman where he tried to kill her.

[icon_uk]

The squick is the point, it's a deliriously warped relationship on both sides.

[lipsofpoison]

Remorse or emotional manipulation?

[benicio127]

I guess imo, it's a bit of both, but it seems weird, the remorse. Only b/c I don't think I've a) ever seen the Joker be remorseful and; b) I thought insane people were insane in part b/c of a lack of remorse.

Then again, in the Paul Dini/Alex Ross story Case Study, there's the suggestion that the Joker isn't really insane, but is really a sane, cold and calculating man. Which is really freaking creepy.

[jlbarnett]

he's sorry... that Harley missed this really great gag cause she always really appeciated his work.

[yaseen101]

Dini once remarked in a DCAU commentary that the DCAU Joker may feel something for Harley in that tiny nutshell of a heart he has. I may have to hunt down that video again, I re-watched it recently so it's still on Youtube.

[benicio127]

Oh I think he does. I mean he tells her he does in Batman: Harley Quinn. But him caring for her isn't necessarily a good thing.

But I still think he manipulates her to return to him. But I think it's more that he can't let her go. Which is the sick part. It's so twisted, I love it.

[rdfox]

He also said, in the same commentary, that Harley does the one thing that most angers Joker--she reminds him he does still have a few human emotions.

[icon_uk]

Look at his reaction to the Creeper making a move on Harl in BTAS, but it's not love so much as possessiveness.

I don't see anything remotely remorseful about the letter here, it's pure manipulation.

[retro_nouveau]

I would say that the Joker messed with Harley's head, and Harley messed with the Joker's heart. He's not more sane because of it, it's just that his thought processes are even more complicated now that Harley has stirred things up.

[jarodrussell]

Did Ivy just get jacked?