One page from Gotham City Sirens 8

[benicio127]

This is interesting.

It is, to my recollection -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- one of the few times (if not the only time) the Joker has appeared to utter some kind of semblance of remorse.

I'm not sure how I feel about this yet...





It's a play on her Mad Love origins, obviously. But unlike the note she receives from the Joker at the end of Mad Love (which was just "Feel better soon," this one has some "remorse" to it. There's manipulation, obviously, of course he wants her to come back.

But if the Joker can exhibit some form of remorse, would that not make him... more sane?

It might just be a throw-away scene, but I thought it was interesting.

Suggested tags: Poison Ivy/Pamela Isley, Harley Quinn/Harleen Quinzel, the Joker, Title: Gotham City Sirens, creator: Guillem March

Comments

[lipsofpoison]

Remorse or emotional manipulation?

[benicio127]

I guess imo, it's a bit of both, but it seems weird, the remorse. Only b/c I don't think I've a) ever seen the Joker be remorseful and; b) I thought insane people were insane in part b/c of a lack of remorse.

Then again, in the Paul Dini/Alex Ross story Case Study, there's the suggestion that the Joker isn't really insane, but is really a sane, cold and calculating man. Which is really freaking creepy.

[jlbarnett]

he's sorry... that Harley missed this really great gag cause she always really appeciated his work.

[lipsofpoison]

It depends on whether they're psychopathic or sociopathic and I'm of the opinion the joker is more the former than the latter. I do believe he designs his own personalities and they evolve beyond any control constraints, so some genuine emotion could possibly leak through in that case, but I don't think this is one of those times.

[benicio127]

I'm of the opinion the joker is more the former than the latter.

I actually never studied the difference between psychopathic and sociopathic behaviours. Why do you say that?

[lipsofpoison]

I could be wrong, as it's more my own observations, but psychopathic tends to be more of the sadistic kind. They get off on the reactions. Sociopathic tends to be purely cold and calculating, with only their goals in sight. While I agree the Joker could very well be both, I do think there's a strong possibility he's one masquerading as the other.

[benicio127]

Sadistic certainly makes sense. He seems to enjoy causing others pain, be it Harley or Batman.

[lipsofpoison]

From my POV, he does it to get a reaction. It's not fun if they don't react, hence a fixation on Batman who is stoic unless you really push the buttons (like shooting Babs, killing his son, killing a childhood friend) and then he can sit back and watch him react, which is something he rarely does.

[benicio127]

And the fact that he's playing centre stage: he's the one causing these reactions. It works the same with Harley, whether he's causing her joy or pain.

Yeah, and that's pretty much why I had the question about whether he feels remorse about his actions.

[lipsofpoison]

Of course. He's nothing if not narcissistic. Harley has become an extension of him, a part I believe to his horror, he does give a damn about and he really, really hates that. So he screws with her but can't cut her loose, because she's too much a part of his persona (or personas if you believe Morrison) and it wouldn't work otherwise. Besides, lifes only a stage if you have someone in the audience who'll laugh at the right moments to assauge any fears you may have that it's not a good performance.

You know, I'll give you credit. I don't think I've had as many indepth discussions on characters over the last little while than I have with you. It's very enjoyable.

[benicio127]

Oh, absolutely. I totally agree. Perfectly said.

You know, I'll give you credit. I don't think I've had as many indepth discussions on characters over the last little while than I have with you. It's very enjoyable.

Right back at ya! ::shakes it:: Woo!
Actually, a few of us have been having a chat over Revenge of the Red Hood at my LJ only because a friend spurned me on.
And then she coined the very awesome name: "Jay Daddy to the T izz odd."
That officially replaces Jason Fucking Peter Todd in my book.
I'd love if you joined in... ;-) http://benicio127.livejournal.com/2854.html

[lipsofpoison]

LOL! Oh lordy. I've been doing much the same thing. I went through Under the Hood and Teen Titans recently, I'm planning to go through his Green Arrow as well, but I do want to do a detailed go through of all of Batman and Robin, because I've got quite a few theories on the whole thing.

Oh, you're on LJ too? *friends* I'll definitely take a look!

[benicio127]

I went through Under the Hood and Teen Titans recently, I'm planning to go through his Green Arrow as well

Oh man. I'll have to check that out!

[lipsofpoison]

Sadly, the full whack isn't posted yet. I got distracted by fanrage and did a "In defense of Jason Todd" thing instead.

[benicio127]

LOL! I'll have to read that too...

Then again, you might think me blasphemous: I actually really enjoyed parts of Morrison's Jason.

[lipsofpoison]

I think he was characterised perfectly well. If you'd said you liked Tony Daniel Jason, I'd have found you blasphemous.

[benicio127]

If you'd said you liked Tony Daniel Jason, I'd have found you blasphemous.


Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo no no no no no no no no no no no!!!!

M'Lady! How dare you even suggest such a thing? ;-P

[lipsofpoison]

As far as I'm concerned, Morrison, Johns and Winick are my Jason stand bys. With the exception of the bizarre look, he sounds like Jason so I can live with it.

[benicio127]

This is like a post derailment off-topic-ness here, but...

Oh. The look! Ha.

I think I'm just gonna quote my friend theminiwheat here on this, because she said it way way way better than me about his bizarre new look. And plus, she's like a ridiculously huge Jason fan.

At first? I absolutely HATED it and thought it was ridiculous. I mean, the skull? That lipstick tube? What happened to the badass?

But then, Jason starts talking about Batman being nothing but a brand? The costume is meant to be ridiculous and campy and I think Jason knows it. It's his version of a "superhero." The cape? Random symbol? Everybody has those. Batman, Superman, Green Lantern? Even Booster Gold has a giant star on his chest. It's like he's making fun of him with his new digs. It's his "brand."

....Despite the fact that it still looks ridiculous.

When I heard this I loved it. But we (fans) immediately think 'whoa, bizarre look,' because we're stalled trying to reconcile this with Winick's Jason, who didn't want to play the dress-up game. He just wanted to get the job done.

[lipsofpoison]

That's what leads me to scepticism that it is Jason, as we know Morrison can do it.

[benicio127]

Oh inconsistency.

Or, why it's also worrisome for his next appearance in the Bat-books.