scans_daily: Wonder Woman #41: Achilles and Patroclus

Flint Marko (

scans_daily,
@ 2010-02-24 05:23 pm UTC

Wonder Woman #41: Achilles and Patroclus

Though the issue already came out this week, the pages I were going to post were already included in the first look so I'm just going to post a link to that.

This is from Wonder Woman v1 #13, by William Moulton Marston and Harry G. Peter.

title: wonder woman, char: wonder woman/diana of themyscira,creator: william moulton marston,era: golden age,publisher: dc comics,char: achilles of thalarion,creator: gail simone,creator: aaron lopresti

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	no subject autumn_lily 2010-02-24 11:40 pm UTC (link)
	Funny, this is almost my exact sentiments on why I'd never get married. (Reply to this)

	no subject mistersandman 2010-02-24 11:57 pm UTC (link)
	Golly, Power Girl sure is punching a lot of people in the face lately... (Reply to this)

	no subject fredneil.livejournal.com 2010-02-24 11:57 pm UTC (link)
	That excuse doesn't really work after Steve gave up a chance to have super strength and told her, essentially, "If you like me better when I'm weaker than you, I don't want to be stronger." Wonder Woman just had a problem with commitment. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 9 comments) (Show 9 comments)

Oh, look, my tangent

lamashtar
2010-02-25 12:20 am UTC (link)

Weakness is implied and pushed by the very word 'wife' and 'marriage'. Some woman admitted as much in a recent newsreport at AOL, giving it as her reasons for being leery of getting married.

I used it as an opportunity to broach the subject with my own husband. I would much prefer to have a civil union or just be live-in lovers.

But maybe you think 16 years of marriage has made me commitment-phobic.

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Re: Oh, look, my tangent

fredneil.livejournal.com
2010-02-25 01:04 am UTC (link)

I don't know you at all. However, I doubt you're Wonder Woman. I also doubt your husband was offered super strength but gave it up because you didn't like him as much that way. Unless I'm wrong about both those things, it's a different situation than the one you're in.

Because you and the woman in the newsreport you mention perceive weakness to be implied by "wife" and "marriage," that doesn't make it an objective truth about all marriages.

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Re: Oh, look, my tangent

lamashtar
2010-02-25 01:28 am UTC (link)

It isn't about being super-strong, or physical superiority. Marriage has a mental weight to it, from a lot of directions. Consider why people even WANT to get married? It doesn't mean they love each other more. Marriage is a legal contract that deals with permissions and property and offspring. All things that can be gotten in other ways. It is the social expectations that attract people. But the expectations are uneven genderwise. The woman is automatically the weaker partner. Some women are okay with it, some are not.

Even Wonder Woman, who might be expected to not knuckle under to social pressure, would feel it from her spouse. She would feel bad when he felt bad. Their marriage would be even more difficult, considering her immense responsibilities. Every marriage has difficulties. People who get divorced often still love each other. It's not about love, or commitment. It's about the rules we feel we need to live with another person in that kind of relationship.

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Re: Oh, look, my tangent

ravenous_raven
2010-02-25 02:33 am UTC (link)

Maybe I'm optimistic, but I've never thought of marriage as an institution that would make the woman the weaker partner. Maybe I've had a lot of role models that have negated that idea, but I've always seen marriage as equalizing the relationship. Where one person lacks, the other provides, that kind of thing, and work and expectations within the relationship are much the same.

So what if society thinks that the wife's the weaker sex, that she has to do more work, or is less equal to her husband? That's not the society I'm inviting to my wedding, that's the society I'm working to change. It's only what your closest friends, family, and of course, your partner's opinions that matter about marriage.

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	Re: Oh, look, my tangent crabby_lioness 2010-02-25 03:17 am UTC (link)
	WORD. The reason I married 21 1/2 years ago is simple: we watch each other's backs. The marriage legally gives us more rights in the watching-each-other's-backs department. That's not something we want to turn down in today's world. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 3 comments) (Show 3 comments)

Re: Oh, look, my tangent

lamashtar
2010-02-25 04:49 am UTC (link)

I don't want to disrespect you guys' happiness. But I'm not a lone voice crying in the wilderness. Nor am I the only person who got married when I didn't agree with the idea.

(The army pays soldiers a couple hundred bucks for getting married, and more for living offpost. Lots of soldiers marry in name only and split the cash. Lots of couples like me who aren't actually ready for or don't believe in it as an institution get married because it makes financial sense. More than a few soldiers plan to take advantage if gays are allowed openly in the military and allowed marriage by marrying their buddies and making money off it.)

It would be nice if the main point of marriage was *because both people wanted to* not the money and the bundled legal advantages.

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Frankly, I'll take the bundled legal (and social) advantages.

crabby_lioness
2010-02-25 05:54 am UTC (link)

It would cost me thousands of dollars in legal fees to obtain the same advantages that a $15 marriage liscence gives me, and even then I wouldn't get all of them. I was not put on this Earth to buy my lawyer a swimming pool.

A marriage liscence says, "You mess with my partner and you mess with me so STFU kthnxbi." I literally can't count the number of times that fact has gotten one or both of us out of trouble with someone who wasn't prepared to tangle with both of us at the same time.

If someone wants to obtain the same rights over someone they don't love that's their business, but don't denigrate the system just because you don't like the way some people manipulate it.

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	no subject lamashtar 2010-02-26 12:41 am UTC (link)
	I'll quit denigrating the system when it no longer follows one religion's marital traditions. If the legal benefits are specified to a more modular contract that is friendly to gays and year-long handfastings as well as the traditional male-female twosomes I'll be happy. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	Re: Oh, look, my tangent janegray 2010-02-26 02:24 pm UTC (link)
	Motto. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject 20thcenturyvole 2010-02-25 12:15 pm UTC (link)
	Whee, Patroclus! Given what I know of the WW portrayal of Achilles, I like where this is going. Now, if they show Patroclus being a total Badass Normal, the classics nerd in me will be thrilled too. (Reply to this)

	no subject shadowpsykie 2010-02-26 06:06 am UTC (link)
	I hope Achillies and Patrick Clease are happy (hope that was actually Diana's Intent) (Reply to this)

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Wonder Woman #41: Achilles and Patroclus

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Oh, look, my tangent

Re: Oh, look, my tangent

Re: Oh, look, my tangent

Re: Oh, look, my tangent

Re: Oh, look, my tangent

Re: Oh, look, my tangent

Frankly, I'll take the bundled legal (and social) advantages.

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Re: Oh, look, my tangent

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no subject