Batman and Robin #11

[flint_marko]

This is from Batman and Robin #11, by Grant Morrison and Andy Clarke.







title: batman and robin, creator: grant morrison, creator: andy clarke

Comments

[jaybee3]

I see Morrison's continuing his character destruction of Talia. Has she ever acted quite like this before?

[flint_marko]

IDK, Rucka had Nyssa brainwash her.

[jaybee3]

True and it would be a good out (to make her less villainous) but nobody has really brought up since within the comic itself.

[queenursula]

of course, there was also that retcon Morrison did where Talia drugged Bruce to impregnate her. :o

[catey]

Am I the only one happy about that retcon? I think it would be weird if they make Talia less villainous. That would mess up Damian's character,and he's supposed to be that tortured little boy, divided between two worlds, good and evil.

Plus, there is already Selina in the hot-exgirlfriend-who's-not-really-a-villain role...

[pepperspray101]

not necessarily...Damian wasn't raised by Talia, he only reunited with her recently. So it wouldn't mess up his character because he was raised and trained by villainous people in the league of assassins, but not always by Talia. So there is room for slight retcon that Talia wasn't always this dementedly evil. (I like to think she's just plain nutters after the brainwashing her sister did on her).

ah, but Selina is different from Talia, in that Selina is first and foremost loyal to herself. Bruce only has to compete with Selina's selfish interests (which isn't really much of a competition). Talia has mostly been depicted as being first and foremost loyal to her father. Bruce has always had to compete with her father for Talia's support/loyalty (and that competition is a lot tougher to beat...).

[theanswer]

I don't know if you can call it character destruction if she didn't have much of it before. Usually she showed up to cause trouble and have sex with Batman. Now she's just causing trouble because Bruce is MIA.

[icon_uk]

Yeah, every time she showed up back in the 70's and 80's I wished to heaven Bruce would just shout "For once in your life you stupid cow, MAKE A CHOICE ON YOUR OWN!!! It's not that hard a choice, Either your world conquering wannabe father, or me, Batman. Evil or Good!! I don't care which anymore, just CHOOSE!"

[sistermagpie]

Seriously, I've always found her like nails on a chalkboard for this reason. She's a grown woman constantly draping herself around Bruce or her dad.

[chipsnopotatoes]

I actually prefer Morrison's Cruella Deville depiction of her than than that 70's vapid love interest with dialog worthy of a romance novel. At least she's got a spine and a brain in this one.

[ar_feiniel]

Is it too much to ask for a third option? I can't disagree with you that Talia has a history of terrible character development, but turning her into a once dimensional cackling villain isn't exactly raising the bar very high either.

[chipsnopotatoes]

actually, she doesn't come across one dimensional to me here. i think morrison's captured her motivation (preserving the al ghul lineage) and written her as a smart capable villain.

[flint_marko]

what about the whole luthor storyline?

[chipsnopotatoes]

was that when she mismanaged luthor's firm on purpose? i didn't read that one.

[shadowpsykie]

it would be funny if she came after dick.

"Hey Talia stop that im not Bruce."

"I don't care, you carry that leather well Nu!Detective."

[punishermax]

Oh she came after dick alright.

HEYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[shadowpsykie]

wow, i sure as hell walked into that one didnt i?

[punishermax]

I like to keep the humor high brow.

[big_daddy_d]

Nice one.

[midnightvoyager]

Except now she's trying to beat him to death using her kid.

Which... goes against that bit of character she did have, so it's more like Character Obliteration. Take away her only traits and she's a pair of boobs with hair.

[theanswer]

I don't see how this goes against her character. Seems very in character for Talia. She's always been an unpredictable woman aside from the certainty that she would use any excuse to have sex with Bruce.

[midnightvoyager]

.....But how does it help her have sex with Bruce if she's had him beaten to death using her kid?

[pepperspray101]

It's ironic that the story that inspired Morrison to create Damian failed to remind him that Talia was a truly caring person who fearing for Bruce's life and that of her son's faked a miscarriage in order to give her baby a normal life with normal loving parents and free Bruce from the parenthood that he wasn't exactly ready for.

*sighs* Yet somehow, Talia the rapist and manipulator of her own flesh and blood is an improvement over that old Talia. *sighs*

[intertobamf]

she's a pair of boobs with hair

That's what she essentially is. If she's not a generic beautiful and exotic love interest, she's a generic beautiful and exotic daughter. She is completely defined by her relationship with other men.

[sistermagpie]

Heh. I had said to somebody the other day that Talia to me spends to spend all her time just wondering whether she's going to worship her father, her son or her beloved this afternoon.