Batman and Robin #11

[flint_marko]

This is from Batman and Robin #11, by Grant Morrison and Andy Clarke.







title: batman and robin, creator: grant morrison, creator: andy clarke

Comments

[midnightvoyager]

Except now she's trying to beat him to death using her kid.

Which... goes against that bit of character she did have, so it's more like Character Obliteration. Take away her only traits and she's a pair of boobs with hair.

[theanswer]

I don't see how this goes against her character. Seems very in character for Talia. She's always been an unpredictable woman aside from the certainty that she would use any excuse to have sex with Bruce.

[midnightvoyager]

.....But how does it help her have sex with Bruce if she's had him beaten to death using her kid?

[theanswer]

Well we don't that is Bruce.

[pepperspray101]

It's ironic that the story that inspired Morrison to create Damian failed to remind him that Talia was a truly caring person who fearing for Bruce's life and that of her son's faked a miscarriage in order to give her baby a normal life with normal loving parents and free Bruce from the parenthood that he wasn't exactly ready for.

*sighs* Yet somehow, Talia the rapist and manipulator of her own flesh and blood is an improvement over that old Talia. *sighs*

[queenursula]

This is what Grant Morrison said about that.

"For a long time, [DC] said [Son of the Demon] was out of continuity. Now it's just kind of out of continuity. I didn't actually read it before I started writing this. I messed up a lot of details, like Batman wasn't drugged when he was having sex with Talia and it didn't take place in the desert. I was relying on shaky memories. But now we have this new "Superboy punch" continuity [after Superboy Prime attacked the fabric of the universe during Infinite Crisis]. People still don't realize how important that single punch was to cover everyone's ass."

[pepperspray101]

I've read this before. I know he didn't remember it right when he began writing. I'm just commenting on how funny/sad it is that the only thing he remembered correctly about Talia was that she had Bruce's baby, and that's it. Not any of the other crucial details that inevitably affected that story (or things that presented her in a positive light, for example).

But yeah, that's some hell of a shaky memory he's got, for him to have remembered it like that. O_o It's obvious the guy didn't care if he was wrong. I seriously doubt there was no one in DC who said..."uh, I think you're remembering it wrong. U sure about this?" He didn't mess up any details, he just disregarded the original and went off on his own tangent. He wasn't relying on any shaky memories, just his wacky imagination.

Some people go for that. Cool. I still hate that the one time Talia is good, it's completely thrown out the window, only to be replaced by Rapist Talia. yay.

[theanswer]

That's an out of continuity story.

[pepperspray101]

Right. So only the pieces that Morrison likes are in continuity and the rest (which show a woman in a positive light) are thrown out in the trash. Yes. I see what he did there.

[intertobamf]

she's a pair of boobs with hair

That's what she essentially is. If she's not a generic beautiful and exotic love interest, she's a generic beautiful and exotic daughter. She is completely defined by her relationship with other men.

[sistermagpie]

Heh. I had said to somebody the other day that Talia to me spends to spend all her time just wondering whether she's going to worship her father, her son or her beloved this afternoon.

[cuntfucius]

As a woman of Middle Eastern descent, I have to say that I think everyone's sorely misunderstanding her character and how she is "defined by her relationship to men." I find Talia inspiring and accessible -- I can relate to her in many ways. But I understand how westerners might not.

[sistermagpie]

How? (That's a genuine question.) Because while I completely believe I could misunderstand a Middle Eastern character, I'm not sure her writers over the years have been relying on much understanding of Middle Eastern people to create her.

[darkness_p]

I'm a middle eastern and muslim. Unfortunately I never been able to relate to Talia exactly for the reasons people pointed out. She embodies everything I detest in a woman. She's all about the men. Loyal, sweet, adoring daughter; exotic groupie who chants "beloved" whenever the big, strong man who daddy likes as a son in law and heir. I never liked her in any of her incarnations. Even managing Luthorcorp was all about men. Lex's business, Bruce's inside connection and daddy's defying little girl. She's nothing like a middle eastern woman I know. But that maybe I was lucky enough to be born and raised in a secular country. So relating to her is impossible for me, especially for this reason.

Morrison made her a bitch from hell and she's just a tool for him, this is true. But even this rings truer and less annoying to me.