3goodtimes: (barda)
[personal profile] 3goodtimes posting in [community profile] scans_daily



I apologize in advance for the wonky scans. I got them from Ends of the Earth and The Circle which you should buy if you have the means. They're really wonderful.

Tom Tresser is laid up in the hospital and Diana comes to visit him.

He kind of looks like an aging boy band member with that hair.






How lovely is that panel of Diana stroking Tom's cheek?

Ugh, scan fail ahead!

Has Diana ever been written with a woman? If not, she should be at some point.

Later, Diana takes Tom on her magical seashell (lolcomics) to Themyscira to meet Hippolyta. She instructs him to be completely honest and he manages to make a good impression. Love Diana's expression in the third panel here.



Tom is almost killed by a Griffin. Then Hippolyta asks if he's been intimate with Diana yet.


Some moms bake muffins, other moms craft deadly weaponry! My mom's muffins could probably qualify as deadly weapons.


And now I'm imagining a much more harrowing version of The Drew Carey Show.


Now, I know there are emotional implications in that line about feeling (as well as some foreshadowing), but is Diana speaking literally too? Is her skin extra tough so she can't feel touch as much as other people? I was slightly confused by that line. Wonder Woman experts, maybe you can help me there.

suck my diiiick!! im a shark!


Three reasons I love those scenes: One, I find them incredibly fucking cute and feel no shame in enjoying cute in my comics. Two, Amazonian ritual fascinates me. When Diana is well-written in the JLA, I often feel she steals the show. But in her own title, I'm sometimes far more intrigued by her sisters, their history, and their traditions. And three, I would love to court a guy. Wouldn't that be great? I've never understood the appeal of being wooed, but when I thought about it from the other direction, I totally get it. More guys should concede to being courted with gifts and sweetness and pulling out chairs. And friendship bracelets.

I'm sad the short-lived romance of Tom and Diana didn't work out. :(

On a totally separate note, I recently finished Inheritance by Devin Grayson and it was just... just horrible, you guys. Maybe this is old news. Maybe you liked it and I'm once again the odd man out. If that's the case, you probably shouldn't read on. I don't think I could cringe more if I watched my grandmother in a porno. /steals joke



It's not the gay subtext (though it was barely subtext here) that bothered me. Heck, I love gay subtext! The more the merrier! However, I was so creeped out by the manner in which she wrote it. It was all pedo-y (not in a fun Golden Age way) and menacing and the characterization was off. I mean, I seriously missed Cry for Justice Ollie whilst reading this book's version of Ollie. It was that bad. The internal monologue-ing was drawn out and bizarre. She spent two paragraphs explaining in detail why Nightwing noticed Aquaman's lack of beard. From Arthur's perspective (although it's hard to tell since the perspectives change abruptly and at random). Which makes no damn sense for the character. That's just the first example of OOC weirdness out of many. I love her work on most comics but yeesh. This book, guys. THIS BOOK. IT BURNS LIKE TWILIGHT.

I cannot wait until Rucka's No Man's Land comes in the mail so I can erase Inheritance from my mind.

Putting that aside... have you all read any DC novels? Any recommendations or just general thoughts on what you've dipped into?

(PS: To the person awaiting Ragdoll scans, I promise I'm almost done gathering them!)

Date: 2010-04-10 08:01 pm (UTC)
bluefall: bluescale wonder woman (Wonder in bluescale)
From: [personal profile] bluefall
If she's trying to make it easier for Tom, why is the first thing she throws at Tom more super-significant sounding amazon ritual, instead of, I don't know, a casual "I'm not here to hurt you, I'm cool with you if Diana is" in plain English?

She was raised among us. She knows how we think, how we act, how we mate and the significance we attach to certain promises and behaviors. She knows that Tresser is in love with Diana - she says it right there on the page - and she knows that Diana's not in love with Tom, because she knows Diana and that a peachpit isn't an engagement ring. Even if I could be convinced that Diana doesn't understand how Tom will misread her advances, you will never convince me that Donna, who has dated more men from our culture than Kyle Rayner has fridges, wouldn't get exactly what's going on here or wouldn't know exactly how to talk to Tom to put him at ease.

But she doesn't sit down with Diana and say "hey, you realize he's reading this all wrong, you need to have a talk with him about where you're actually at." She doesn't, when she meets Tom, say "relax - amazons don't actually bite, and as far as Diana's concerned, you guys are still on your second date."

Instead, she makes it significantly worse, by being all "I solemnly swear by all my gods that I will die for you, and my sister has Very Important things to say to you but you have to Give Her Time," and all sorts of other portentious and incredibly intense stuff that can only possibly leave him with the impression that all of this is an even bigger deal and he's even more important to Diana than he thought. The woman's sister just told him she'd die for him, which is a pretty insanely serious statement of devotion in his culture. How is he supposed to read that as anything other than "ohmygod, Diana is over-the-moon Twilight-stalker in love with me"? And how in the multiverse could Donna not know that?

If Donna were really trying to make Tom feel welcome, she'd do it in a way that would actually make him feel welcome, not more confused and behind the curve and, in his own words, like a grade-A chump.

ETA: Holy HTML fail, Batman. Jeez, that's the second time this post I've done that! :facepalm:

Date: 2010-04-10 08:50 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gailsimone
I think this is a case of selective reading, Bluefall. You're much closer to the facts with this comment you made earlier..."From the Themysciran perspective, as this storyline presents it, the whole ritual is the question; if he didn't want it, she expected him to say so. "

If you read one panel of the Donna/Tom meeting, yes, she goes a bit hard at the ritual. Then she spends the rest of the scene trying to welcome him and let him know that Diana is fond of him.

And I can't see Amazons interfering in the ritual of other Amazons--that seems very much against the idea in the first place. Remember, ALL she knows about Tom is that Diana is fond of him. Not crazy in love, not ready to romance, but fond of him. And she comes into the house while he's in the middle of destroying Diana's place and fighting with her personal guards.

And he says he feels like a chump right after she extends her hand and says he is her new friend and ally.

You can't just pick the first couple panels and ignore the rest.

"You deserve answers, Tom, but they're not mine to give."

I mean, that really is as completely clear as it gets.

I think the obvious fact that both Polly and Donna actually are very impressed by Tom in their first meetings is the key point there. Yes, he doesn't get her culture yet. But that happens all the time in our own country without taking into consideration island nations that have been isolated for 3000 years.

You can be, say, Catholic, and raised here, not in Rome, and still confuse your potential mate with the rituals and culture or your beliefs. Multiply that many, many times, and you get Diana. It doesn't matter even one bit that she's been here ten years...she was trying the Amazon way on purpose.

Date: 2010-04-10 11:15 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
When you're trying to welcome someone into any sort of family, it makes sense that you'd use your own cultural traditions to do so.

Actually no, I don't think you would, you'd find a compromise between yours and theirs, and if you WERE going to do something you knew was a bit outré, you'd let them know in advance what was coming up to avoid offence/shock/horror on both sides.

It might be tradition amongst your people for your parents to spit on your beloved when they first meet him/her, to show they'd gladly offer up their vital fluids for them, but if you haven't explained it to your partner in advance you can hardly blame them if they think your parents hate him/her

Date: 2010-04-10 11:27 pm (UTC)
bluefall: Circe laughing like a loon (evil laugh)
From: [personal profile] bluefall
That exact tragic misunderstanding, in fact, is why Guy Gardner will never find true love with Amfela of the Camel-People of Rigel-615.

Date: 2010-04-11 07:06 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I haven't seen the Donna scene, I was still talking about Diana and the nectarine pit scene.

Date: 2010-04-10 11:25 pm (UTC)
bluefall: bluescale wonder woman (Wonder in bluescale)
From: [personal profile] bluefall
Remember, ALL she knows about Tom is that Diana is fond of him. Not crazy in love, not ready to romance, but fond of him.

Exactly. She knows that. And she knows Tom is in love with Diana - again, she says it right there on the page. And instead of thinking "hey, uh-oh, this guy is totally misreading stuff, he and Diana are not on the same page at all, better step back a bit," she goes right after him as intense as possible as though Diana were in love - grilling him on whether he's in love, telling him that there's important stuff Diana hasn't told him yet (if those answers weren't a big deal, she could just say it herself), basically every single thing she says to him from start to finish *encourages* him to think that Diana is head-over-heels for him, that he's involved in something Big here. She exacerbates the miscommunication, by acting in a way that she would know would read to him as "you are in a position to emotionally hurt someone I care about" (aka, someone I love loves you), because again, even if you could convince me that Diana wouldn't know how the intensity of amazon ritual would come across to Tom, you can't convince me that Donna, who's been married to a Man's World shmuck, wouldn't.

It's got nothing to do with what Diana or Tom would or wouldn't get about each other, here, or interfering with Diana's ritual - this is about Donna. She's behaving in that scene like she's a pure Themysciran who doesn't realize how Tom would interpret her rituals or her questions, rather than a child of two worlds who would know promising to die for Tom and asking if he's in love will give him a false (and therefore dangerous) impression of Diana's investment. She doesn't have to say "dude, she's not as into you as you think" if she doesn't want to step on Diana's toes; she should, however, be expected not to say "dude, she's even more into you than you think," which is the screamingly loud subtext of her behavior in that scene from an American perspective. Which she would be aware of.

Date: 2010-04-11 12:45 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gailsimone
I'm sorry, Bluefall, but this is like arguing with someone who's mad because I didn't match their fanfic.

How in god's name is this statement, "I know she's taken a fancy to you," which is absolutely the closest thing to anything even REMOTELY like what you're saying here indicate that Diana is 'head-over-heels' for him? There is nothing like that for one moment in this scene.

And I say again, she makes it very clear that she isn't allowed to say more.

""You deserve answers, Tom, but they're not mine to give.""

"I ask only that you give my sister the chance to tell you in her own time."

This 'head-over-heels' thing is completely invented. It's not in the text, period.

And I defy anyone to read that scene right this moment and come up with anything that even implies anything in the same UNIVERSE as, "dude, she's even MORE into you than you think."

That is pure invention.

I always enjoy your analysis of WW issues, Bf, you know that. But the scene you're talking about does not exist even a little bit. I choose words very carefully. If I'd meant for Donna to imply that, which I did not, I would have had SOME line of dialogue that said something to that effect.

There is NO such line, and I think you must realize that or you would have cited examples.

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