Wonder Woman #43 Preview

[a_clericalerror]

Source.
PG's boob window? It's empowering or a symbol placeholder or something.
Helena's bare abs? She worked out a lot.
Wonder Woman's whole ensemble?



It has been explained before with the Diana Trevor story, though I guess a tip of the hat to a woman who gave her life to aid them wasn't good enough. Really drilling that in with Hippolyta wearing the flag in the scene right before this yet dropping the connection in favor of some coincidental weather and a few stars that might be Cassiopeia.

For a moment there I almost thought this was closer to the present day, ignoring the sudden break in the story, and they might actually be trashing the swim suit in favor of something less ridiculous.

Silly, optimism. Sensible clothing is for kids* (and men).

*If you know of something that contradicts this, please don't tell me. I don't want to know.

Comments

[demonprawn]

Greeks would never send there soldiers into battle with a bathing suit and only boots, bracers and some head protection.

...oh wait
Well the more civilised romans...

well maybe Marvel shows more sensibility with their ancient Greeks.

Guess I don't see the big deal of an Ancient Greek style hero with some what "Spartan" dress sence
....pun intended.

[sistermagpie]

Just wanted to thank you for this post--I enjoyed reading it! WW has one of those outfits I can't stand looking at because it looks so uncomfortable, but I accept it because that's what it is. But it looks like what it was, something created in the 1940s. I appreciate people trying to make it more interesting and make it make sense, but we see it as a silly bathing suit because that's what it is!

Btw, I was recently reading an article about David's endowment. I believe the upshot is: He's scared!

Re: Yeah, no.

[sistermagpie]

Actually, while I agree the real problem is the sex issue, Batman and Superman's outfits *have* been changed to address this issue in ways WW's has not. Okay, not Superman's so much since he doesn't need it. But Batman's outfit is still supposed to be basically head to toe armor.

The best comparison I always think is Robin since he's the only male who walked around with bare legs. He got pants.

Now, maybe that's partly a Bat thing since they're in Gotham and it seems dark and gritty and it fits to have everybody fully cloaked and dark. But the girls in Gotham get to dress pretty much like the guys do.

[aegof]

Hahaha.

[foxhack]

... Argument aside, what the HELL is up with that image? O_o

[foxhack]

...

BABIES, BABIES, BABIES.

*don't hurt me*

[schala_kid]

No, I absolutely love it.

[arysteia]

They most absolutely are *not* talking about the guy that wrote it down. They are talking about the guy who came up with the best version of a centuries old story, but most likely still in a largely (sure, not entirely) oral tradition. It was written down on the orders of the Athenian tyrant Peisistratos in the C6th, some three centuries later.

Your digamma point is of course totally correct.

[/can't resist a bizarre tangent]

[angharad_gov]

the amazons aren't greek. herodotus said that they originated from sarmatia or possibly in asia minor.

and what they wore?
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/image?img=1992.09.0378
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/image?img=1990.01.1883
http://images.perseus.tufts.edu/images/1993.01.1/1993.01.0363
http://images.perseus.tufts.edu/images/1993.01.1/1993.01.0355

[angharad_gov]

here, if you'd like to read for yourself:

Herodotus, The Histories, Book 4, Line 110 and onwards.

http://herodot.glossa.dk/hdt4.html#par110

[demonprawn]

"Ancient Greek style hero".That's what Wonder Woman and her Amazons are. They worship the Greek gods, they dress like pop-culture ancient Greeks, there building are all ancient Greeky.

And correct me if I'm wrong (as I could very well be), but they aren't the same Amazons. Aren't they the Souls of wronged women gathered and resurrected and put on an Island and then called the Amazons?

Also lets not forget she's a superhero. We don't criticise Batman's costume for not being bat like enough. She's got a Super hero costume run through Greek armour styling. It doesn't have to be so literal. What I gather are people want her to dress in Greek armour with wonder Super hero stylings. I'm not saying that's wrong but I am saying that there are two ways to approach it and I think they are picking the one that helps her stay more comic book hero.

[angharad_gov]

And correct me if I'm wrong (as I could very well be), but they aren't the same Amazons. Aren't they the Souls of wronged women gathered and resurrected and put on an Island and then called the Amazons?

is that still considered canon? at this stage of the game, i can't keep track of what's what with regard to dc amazons and their history. is it even going to matter anymore when they do a soft re-boot at #601?

We don't criticise Batman's costume for not being bat like enough. She's got a Super hero costume run through Greek armour styling. It doesn't have to be so literal. What I gather are people want her to dress in Greek armour with wonder Super hero stylings. I'm not saying that's wrong but I am saying that there are two ways to approach it and I think they are picking the one that helps her stay more comic book hero.

oh, yes i realize that as well :) ;however, considering the hullabaloo regarding what's "proper" and not with her costume being "not greek" enough, i thought i'd point out how far from the "actual amazons" the dc version of amazons are both in their dress and origins and culture. one supposes we can point the original fault to marston, as he made his amazons and diana greco-roman when herodotus actually said they were otherwise. marston's choices are still coloring and making controversies even after almost 70 years later.

my own thoughts regarding her costuming? as long as they don't put her in some ludicrous, offensive, and overly sexualized thong-like thing, i'm okay with it. old costume, new costume ::shrug::

[richardak]

More problematically, from a story pov, it is baffling and inexplicable
to newer readers. People ask, why is Diana dressed in the American flag?
And if you have to trot out the Diana Trevor story, believe me, you've already
lost them. It only works in full context--even in truncated flashback it's
extremely ornate and confusing. More importantly, I think there's some
poetry in saying that Diana is a creature of the heavens, and her
outfit represents it the way a frieze represents a culture. It's kind
of something that can't easily be unheard...once you think of the
eagle and the stars and Cassiopeia in that context, I think a lot
of baggage is removed pretty painlessly. It doesn't take away
the Trevor story...but it also makes Diana less exclusively
American, which has been a storytelling problem since before the
Perez issues. An ambassador to the world should not favor only
one nation. If she'd been wearing the hammer and crescent, or
a Muslim flag, how would the rest of the world see her, and could she
really do her mission of peace wearing those colors?

Since I am not, and and cannot imagine ever being a Wonder Woman fan, take this only for what it's worth: I think the above comment is wrong-headed. Trying to explain Wonder Woman's costume as being something other than that she's wearing a stylized American flag will not and can not ever work. As I understand it, the original explanation that Marston offered was that she wore an American flag because she had adopted America as her country, and wanted to be an American hero. That's the only explanation that makes any real sense and doesn't feel forced and contrived.

If you don't want Wonder Woman to do that, if you want her to be a globalist, internationalist hero, so be it, but the classic costume is never going to work with that interpretation of the character. On top of which, it will always come across as obnoxious to some Americans. For a hero who identifies with America and America's cause, to wear our banner honors it. From a character who does not identify with our country and our cause, it comes across as mockery. No rationalization will help that situation.

[demonprawn]

my own thoughts regarding her costuming? as long as they don't put her in some ludicrous, offensive, and overly sexualized thong-like thing, i'm okay with it. old costume, new costume

That's how I feel too. I just thought I'd point out that her costume isn't as crazy off base as people seem to think. I mean taking inspiration from the elements, the stars and sky and stuff, that's really Ancient Greek and also the most concise and simple and explanation her costume. I can't believe it hasn't been used already and is the default story.

"We took inspirations from the heavens" Bam! done.
If there's a movie I would bet that this is what they go with (you know barring stupid that host country's colours one)

[demonprawn]

Just because of Stars on a Blue field?

[richardak]

Unless I'm misinformed, Marston made it pretty explicit that the costume was meant to be seen as a stylized American flag. And Simone, in the comment I quoted, acknowledged that she has been repeatedly asked about this very issue. Plus, I think it's self-evident that it's an American flag that Wonder Woman is wearing. I understand that you disagree, but I find your position unpersuasive.

[cmdr_zoom]

Themiscyra: the Tokyo Tower of the DCU.

[cmdr_zoom]

But it needs to be changed.

[demonprawn]

I don't disagree entirely. I think it's sufficiently different with the gold W the only clear thing is the Star pants and I think that can, like above be, interpreted differently. If there was a movie and they steered clear of all the Americanism I don't think an audience would have a hard time accepting it.

On top of which, it will always come across as obnoxious to some Americans. For a hero who identifies with America and America's cause, to wear our banner honors it. From a character who does not identify with our country and our cause, it comes across as mockery.

Her cause is World Peace and love so...

[richardak]

You can make any cause sound good by saying it's all about peace and love. Her cause is internationalism/globalism; if you think that's the way to peace and love, fine. That might mean you are also a globalist. Suffice it to say that I don't agree.

[koschei]

You know, I get the "She shouldn't look scary" idea for a lone ambassador who's task is to evangelicise the world.

And even though I hate with a passion you ditching the Diana Trevor origin -- because nothing you're replacing it with has ever had the simple elgance in explaining her wearing the Star Spangled Banner as the desire pay homage to someone from the Outside world who earned the respect of the Amazons -- I can get your attempt to try and ignore the patriotic origins for something more Amazonian.

But you still continue to fail to do anything that can possily explain why a strappless bathing suit was ever a good -- or even culturally appropriate -- in-universe idea.

[demonprawn]

I would'nt be able to keep up in an argument about globalisim and nationalism so I won't try. You'd have me beat there.

But I don't think that saying that her costume can't be seen any way but as an American flag, or that she must conform to a set cause if it does and that NO rationalisation can change that. I disagree I think some rationalisation can change that. I don't see her as Ms.Captain America I think explanation such as the one in this post can distance her from the American connotations in the costume.

And I think your right with Marston's original intentions the links were there and intentional. But just like with a lot of her original portrayals and details a lot has changed.

[richardak]

Clearly, if you see her costume as something other than an American flag, it can be seen that way. My point is that most of the people that Simone referred to asking why Wonder Woman is wearing an American flag are not going to be satisfied by this or any other rationalization.

Let me put it this way: of these new readers who have questioned Simone about this, how many do you think didn't know what Wonder Woman's costume looked like before they started reading the comic? Her costume is one of the most recognized attributes of the character. I suspect that most of them, because of their familiarity with her costume, expect something like a female version of Captain America, and are surprised not to get it. (Obviously I don't see her as Ms. Captain America any more than you do.) Hence their questions.

[gailsimone]

Sheesh.

Yes, it's all me. I was the one who decided WW isn't purely an American hero. Well deduced, sir.

Except that it's been a part of her character for decades and the books are sold in countries around the world, AND thematically it makes no sense at all for her to have chosen America as her adopted country before even leaving Themyscira.

And as I said before, if the Diana Trevor story works so well, why do so many readers hate it, why has it never completely 'taken' as part of the canon, and why is it so completely baffling to new readers?

[gailsimone]

According to some above, it's not like an American flag at all.

So it's not really self-evident for everyone.

Me, I believe it's hard NOT to see the American flag in her costume.