Wonder Woman #43 Preview

[a_clericalerror]

Source.
PG's boob window? It's empowering or a symbol placeholder or something.
Helena's bare abs? She worked out a lot.
Wonder Woman's whole ensemble?



It has been explained before with the Diana Trevor story, though I guess a tip of the hat to a woman who gave her life to aid them wasn't good enough. Really drilling that in with Hippolyta wearing the flag in the scene right before this yet dropping the connection in favor of some coincidental weather and a few stars that might be Cassiopeia.

For a moment there I almost thought this was closer to the present day, ignoring the sudden break in the story, and they might actually be trashing the swim suit in favor of something less ridiculous.

Silly, optimism. Sensible clothing is for kids* (and men).

*If you know of something that contradicts this, please don't tell me. I don't want to know.

Comments

[gailsimone]

Jesus. Whatever, guys. I am not reinventing or explaining the character since her inception. Did it explain why her costume is something I never said it was and don't agree with? Gee, no, sorry. I think the whole 'strapless bathing suit' is just silly.

And if the Trevor origin was so lovely and elegant and butterfly-esque, why is it so many devoted Wonder fans hate it?

I consulted with George and Phil and Greg on this scene and was extremely careful. If you insist on believing I ditching the Trevor origin, that's really your choice. I believe in adding, not negating.

[demonprawn]

I guess you have a point there. Perhaps If she had a larger, more modern entry into wide spread pop culture it could sway in my direction more. Perhaps I'm looking at this from too close a perspective. I see it but at the same time I kinda see past it.

Re: Isn't she....?

[gailsimone]

This is a very interesting post, A_clericalerror, and I have often pondered the point you make about the flag. Unfortunately, I think that is a bit of a tough sell to the person who doesn't know that country's flag (including myself) or Diana's history. The gut reaction is ALWAYS (at least in America) that she's wearing the stars and stripes.

I think what you said about Dinah and Diana is interesting, too...but remember, Diana specifically says that underground fight rings are not her specialty, but are something Dinah is more intimately familiar with. That said, I most definitely hoped to show Diana as, not a formal ambassador, but much more an citizen of the world. When we were planning a second book, the stories were all going to be purely outside of the US. Unfortunately, we didn't get to tell those stories. Dinah is not someone who actually does diplomacy, however, that would be Diana's role no matter where in the world they went. But where to get the best food? That's definitely Dinah. ;)

[richardak]

In all fairness, I believe you're attributing to me things I never said. First, of all, I don't believe I ever said, and I certainly don't think, that you are responsible for making Wonder Woman an internationalist. I'm well aware that that has been the way her character has been written for decades now.

Nor did I say that there aren't good reasons, commercial and artistic, to write the character that way. The reasons you have given for writing the character that way are sensible.

I also certainly never said that the Diana Trevor story works well at all, or that it would was or would be popular with readers, or any other good thing about it. On the contrary, I consider the Diana Trevor story to also be a rationalization for why she wears an American flag as her costume, and one that can also never work. I thought I had made that clear, and I apologize for not doing so.

My point is not that she shouldn't be written as an internationalist hero. My point is that she should not simultaneously be drawn as wearing the American flag as her costume. There is a contradiction there that I think you also see. I just don't think the contradiction can be resolved short of changing her costume or overall portrayal.

[demonprawn]

I'm not a hardcore WW fan but I have read yours and Rucka's issues and I only have a vague Idea of the Diana Trevor stuff so I welcome this new explanation.

It's the best and simplest way to explain it. Think of the Spider-Man movie. His costume is developed in a dialogue-less montage. You could do that here too, although you'd miss the deeper meanings and connection of the symbols chosen. But you could.

[gailsimone]

No amount of discussion changes the simple fact. There's never a point in Diana's story, no matter which origin, where Hippolyta wanted her to go to the outside world with her weapons visible. The whole idea is completely the opposite of the mission in the first place.

It just doesn't make any sense at all.

[richardak]

I didn't say it's self-evident to everyone. But it is to me, and apparently to you as well, and to a large number of other people. That's good enough for me. Suffice it to say that the people who look at her costume and don't see an American flag also won't see or be bothered by the contradiction I'm talking about. And that's fine.

[gailsimone]

Again, you guys are simply not thinking this through.

Why in god's name would a woman who can take a punch from Superman be made 'uncomfortable' by clothing?

And calling the metal logo a 'breastplate' is a bit of license, but no more so than calling her wristpieces 'bracelets,' as they were called for decades.

The weirdness of this conversation is expecting every bit of Diana's costume choices since 1942 to be explained by a three page scene that has little to do with any of that.

Re: Yeah, no.

[gailsimone]

It's so great and powerful that most Wonder fans hate it and no one even mentions it for years at a time and it completely baffles new readers.

Something is disconnected.

[gailsimone]

You are making an assumptive error. No one said the breastplate is meant to be protective.

I would say it's pretty clearly not. You're angry at something that was never implied at all.

[gailsimone]

I believe that was Pallus!

[gailsimone]

Greg did try to get the costume changed. I don't remember the whole story but it didn't go well.

[gailsimone]

I agree with you, actually, I'm just saying that there are people who don't, as evidenced right in this thread.

I think the two stories fit perfectly well hand-in-hand. The Amazons love symbols, and are inspired by both the gods and a brave woman.

[gailsimone]

Hmmm. Okay, fair points down the line.

Well, to be fair, this thread is completely atypical of the average reader. This is where the a lot of fan-ficcers and high-level readers hang out, it's a more devoted and more argumentative crowd.

But the truth is, this kind of stuff has been going on for decades with all the DC icons. The armored logo on Batman's chest, Superman's "S" being no longer for Superman but from the house of Kal El...we accept crazy stuff all the time if it's done well and practiced with consistency, and more importantly, new readers who come upon the material are given those answers the first time they ask--it's not really an issue for them because when THEY hear it for the first time, it's just considered part of the accepted lore.

The original icon characters were brilliant creations, but almost all the mythology came much later and additions are still forthcoming all the time.

I think Diana's chest logo now is sufficiently different to no longer really evoke the flag in the same way, which leaves the stripes on the boots, not a big deal, and the most problematic bit, the stars on the bottom part of her uniform.

Who knows? Continuity is fluid. But Diana belonging to and representing the heavens makes sense to me and is a much simpler, clearer explanation for the symbols on her costume.

Re: Thread Freeze!

[gailsimone]

I'm sure it is, on occasion.

Re: Thread Freeze!

[gailsimone]

No, but the more absurd the connection, the more like it is that it doesn't.

There is nothing in that scene that is analogous to "she asked for it," as an excuse. It's really not worth defending.

[gailsimone]

I really hate to ask this because I like you guys and I like Scans Daily and all...

...but do you guys actually know what a bikini IS?

For god's sake, she's not wearing a bikini. She never wore a bikini.
It's not a bikini.

If you have to call it a swimsuit, fine, whatever. But repeatedly saying
this endlessly will never change that it's NOT a bikini.

So, I guess to answer the question, "WHY A BIKINII?" My answer would have to be...
..."how in the world is this supposed to be a bikini?"

Then I would go kill a hydra.

[gailsimone]

Love that bit. Love that it upsets 'experts,' too. :)

[koschei]

She's wearing a garment that has no historical counterpart to anything except a strapless bathing suit; even the original skirt made it look more greeco-roman. Accessorising with arm bands and boots is, despite all your protestations, not going to change that one iota.

[koschei]

Armour isn't a weapon.

But part of the problemis that Diana isn't an ambassador, at least not in the traditional idea of the position. She's an evangelist. The entire point of her being in Man's World is to deprecate its cultures and values as less intrinsically worthy than her own.

Her mission is, in fact, intrinsically hostile.

[cygna_hime]

...Then what's it *for*? If it's a breastplate, then it's meant to be protective by definition. That's what a breastplate *is*. If they say "breastplate", it's not an unwarranted assumption on my part to conclude that what they meant was "breastplate". Which is, by definition, a piece of armor. Not a shirt with metal bits on.

If you want me to conclude that it is *not* armor, then using the name of a piece of armor to refer to it is possibly not the best tactic.

[koschei]

Just ignoring that the costume has no historical or cultural validity, up until your retcon here, it was always a done deal, extant before the process of choosing their representative to Man's World who just turns out to be a Superman-level metahuman.

In fact, look at the contest -- it's all about combat readiness. It's races and sword fighting and spear throwing and deflecting bullets. There's never once been a version of it where oratory and debate are shown to be skills desired for the role.

[gailsimone]

That's what I did, I just picked it because it sounded so pretty.

Or, I read voluminously on Cassiopeia and the constellation, and actually consulted one of America's most famous astronomers, Phil Plait, for information on its formation and history.

Again, look at the other gods the Amazons worship. Very few are purely admirable and most have something awful in their history.

Also, wow, cool name!

Re: Yeah, no.

[koschei]

By the reasoning that why does Diana need to worry about protective garments, why is Superman costumed in anything more than those red underpants?

[richardak]

Everything you say is true (see what I did there?). I would just say that one difference between Wonder Woman's costume versus Superman's or Batman's is that their costumes symbolize nothing but themselves outside of the story. So there's no issue with their symbols clashing with the ideals they represent the way there is for her.

Also, I do agree that your solution has the virtue of being shorter and simpler than the previous. Maybe that will be enough. As you say, who knows?

Anyway, I also want to say that I really appreciate that you take the time to converse with your fans this way. It's truly great-hearted of you, so thank you.