flint_marko: (Default)
[personal profile] flint_marko posting in [community profile] scans_daily

Damian has a conversation with his mother...






And the identity of Oberon Sexton is revealed...

title: batman and robin, creator: grant morrison, creator: andy clarke
Page 1 of 2 << [1] [2] >>

Date: 2010-05-05 09:22 pm (UTC)
protogarrett: (Default)
From: [personal profile] protogarrett
Oh... goody. We get another Son of Wayne in the future.
Christ.

As for Talia, I'm sorry but Bruce turns her down time and again and she always comes back to him. I can't see this "I reject my SON" shtick sticking or even in character, but then people in the real world are able to change themselves and their minds.

As for Joker? Did not see that coming.

Date: 2010-05-05 09:23 pm (UTC)
protogarrett: (Default)
From: [personal profile] protogarrett
Not to say I don't like Damian nowadays, but still, another?

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Date: 2010-05-05 09:28 pm (UTC)
nevermore999: STEPH IS BATGIRL AND INSPIRATIONAL TO YOUNG GIRLS ISN'T SHE AWESOME (Default)
From: [personal profile] nevermore999
Dami? That...is a very awkward nickname.

*says it out loud* *giggles*

Morrison must have a very low opinion of Bruce to think he'd be in love with this version of Talia.

Date: 2010-05-05 09:31 pm (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
He doesn't seem to have had any "Love" kinds of feelings for Talia for quite some time judging from her appearences in the series so far.

Maybe he's a Selina shipper? *waves flag*

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Date: 2010-05-05 09:30 pm (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
Wow, Mr J is kinda buff. *laughs*

Wait, does this mean that Dr Hurt's been attempting to blackmail him? You'd have thought he'd have learnt his lesson from last time.

Date: 2010-05-06 05:01 pm (UTC)
stig: "It Was A Boojum..." (Default)
From: [personal profile] stig
He IS meant to be the Devil. Classic literature through the ages doesn't often portray Satan as quick on the uptake.

Date: 2010-05-05 09:31 pm (UTC)
punishermax: (Default)
From: [personal profile] punishermax
"Being Robin is just not normal Damien. Now let's go visit your millennial old grandfather who takes baths in pits of special liquids that make you immortal and also cause insanity and if you don't stop I'll just remake another version of you in a small pod. And tell your father who is a crime fighter who wears a cape and a bat mask and fights alongside a man from another planet who is dead but will most likely come back when he gets home finally to buy you a scarf. You'll catch your death."

Date: 2010-05-05 10:07 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I think that's more or less the point Morrison was making.

------------------------------------------------------

"They say I'm insane... Do YOU think I'm insane Alfred?"

"Not at all sir, why you're the very model of sanity... Oh, and I took the liberty of pressing your tights and putting away your exploding gas balls."

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From: [personal profile] benicio127 - Date: 2010-05-05 11:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
(deleted comment)

Date: 2010-05-05 09:40 pm (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
She seemed to have the same kind of possessive, arrogant rich person attitude that the Black Hand members had.

Namely, she had expectations of him and if he does along with it she gets angry and childish.

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From: [identity profile] dumdumdumbutt.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-05-05 09:57 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-05-05 09:46 pm (UTC)
jaybee3: Nguyen Lil Cass (Default)
From: [personal profile] jaybee3
Oh, lord, do I hate Morrison's Talia. He's not even using the Nyssa brainwashing thing to excuse it. He's just making her batsh!t crazy and E-V-I-L in the way her father is when she never was that way. The whole point of Talia was not that she was just evil but that she had divided loyalties, which is why she was never able to kill her "Beloved" when her father told her to. Speaking of which, he's coming back, Damien references here and we get NO reaction from her except the whole new evil BatFetusDamienClone plan? Really? I hate to think this is how future writers, taking Morrison's tip, will write Talia. I also hate how she's drawn here. Talia should be a beautiful woman, younger even than Catwoman, since she got involved with Bats in her teens and yet she looks 40.

Also, the Joker reveal? Most anti-climatic thing ever. Didn't pretty much most people guess her was Sexton long ago? Especially since Morrison told people he was bringing the Joker back in a "different" way.

Meanwhile, no Cass Cain. I held a tiny hope that the "fan favorite" returning would be her. Nope. Why can't DC give readers nice things? Morrison still has yet to write her as far as I know after two years + on the Bat-books.

Date: 2010-05-05 10:10 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Yes, but the problem with old Talia is that she had no discernible personality whatsoever. Everything was always motivated by her father's opnion of her, or her Beloved's opinon of her, and she still always went back to Daddy ANYWAY.

She was such a sodding wimp that there is no way Bruce should ever have been attracted to her. Yes, she was never able to kill Batman, but she was never able to tell her uber-controlling father (who weirdly DID love her in his way) to sod off and leave her alone. She had no SPINE and some sense of independence is the least that Bruce would require to be interested.

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Date: 2010-05-05 11:54 pm (UTC)
blake_reitz: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blake_reitz
Even if she gave you an island for your birthday?

Date: 2010-05-05 10:25 pm (UTC)
rattsu: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rattsu
OMG I WAS RIGHT!

I had not expected this. I had not expected this. Not only did I actually want to give Damien a hug (what is up with that), but Oberon Sexton actually is the Joker. That has to be the first one I have actually called something correctly...

Date: 2010-05-05 10:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dcbanacek.livejournal.com
You know, I've never really liked Damian... To be honest, I kind of wish they would have never had the little bastard show up... But this, this actually made me respect him. I'd still run him over if he jumped in front of my car, but he has my respect.

Date: 2010-05-05 10:27 pm (UTC)
ulf_boehnke: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ulf_boehnke
Is anyone else thinking that the Oberon Sexton reveal comes from so far out of left field that it's really funny?

Date: 2010-05-05 10:28 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Robin Joker Another day....)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
So I see the Joker has recovered from his gunshot would to the head and presumably the split tongue, the utterly pointless disfigurements that Morrison gave him, and which were so roundly ignored by every other writer and artist that one almost believe they did it just to spite Grant.

Date: 2010-05-05 10:35 pm (UTC)
intertobamf: (batman smile)
From: [personal profile] intertobamf
Morrison is a fan of the idea that the Joker "recreates" himself from time to time, so none of that was ever meant to be permanent.

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Date: 2010-05-05 10:34 pm (UTC)
supergirl: (Default)
From: [personal profile] supergirl
GODDAMMIT MORRISON IT IS CALLED CONSISTENT CHARACTERIZATION WHY ARE THEY LETTING YOU WRITE THIS CRAP.

And yet my love for "Dami" is not diminished.

Date: 2010-05-05 10:39 pm (UTC)
jelly_ace: (nooooo)
From: [personal profile] jelly_ace
So Damian's schtick is "Why can't you just love meeeeeee?"

Date: 2010-05-05 10:43 pm (UTC)
intertobamf: (Default)
From: [personal profile] intertobamf
Not really? Seems he's more criticizing his mother for being a horrible person and accepting that he'll never be what his mother wants.

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Date: 2010-05-05 10:50 pm (UTC)
big_daddy_d: (Default)
From: [personal profile] big_daddy_d
Ok as much as I love Morrison handling anything Batman, I kept an open mind in how he handled Talia because to be honest, I actually understood her evil, psycho mother turn..but this...wow..dude dropped the ball because this is the LAST thing..no I would never expect that from Talia. She's becoming her father..which I something I always thought she wished to avoid. As for Joker being Sexton..wow..does this mean he was actually Sane since Bruce was gone?

Date: 2010-05-05 11:21 pm (UTC)
benicio127: (Puddin'!)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
As for Joker being Sexton..wow..does this mean he was actually Sane since Bruce was gone?

A play on the very excellent Going Sane arc?

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Date: 2010-05-05 11:01 pm (UTC)
benicio127: (Puddin'!)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
Wow! I actually really enjoyed the ending. That was a HOLY SHIT moment that I thought was perfect for Mr. J.

slkjdfklsdjfklsdjflksd !!! was pretty much my reaction.

Date: 2010-05-05 11:16 pm (UTC)
greenmask: (Default)
From: [personal profile] greenmask
Is Dick grasping Joker's peen?

Date: 2010-05-05 11:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] minyandu.livejournal.com
O_o
Talia never seems crazy in a perfection-love-obssession way to me. It's a bit weird she is doing this.
And I didn't expect Damian would go so directly to mother-can-you-just-love-what-I-am. I thought he would go stutter or so on this topic like BAT.
Dick, you are doing the same miracle on his son. O_o

And what will they do to that baby? I don't want to see a baby get killed, nomatter he's a clone or not.

Date: 2010-05-05 11:55 pm (UTC)
catey: (Default)
From: [personal profile] catey
Err... Usually I hate baby killing in the DC universe, but this is too much. This one has to go. No matter what Morrison says, Bruce Wayne is NOT Angelina Jolie.

Date: 2010-05-05 11:49 pm (UTC)
cuntfucius: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cuntfucius
Aaaand I'm convinced I am either reading an entirely different canon than almost everyone here.

I'm not speaking for all girls from the Middle East here -- we all have stark differences in our cultures, from nation to nation, and I understand Talia represents something "weak" to many people and women in particular, but she has always been accessible to me and never has once represented weakness in any way whatsoever (well, until this recent characterization). People are brushing her character with an extremely wide stroke and I guess it's kind of ... baffling me?

For people to call her a wimp, when she's been raised into a life and placed into situation after situation where BOTH men, Bruce and her Father, use her to make Sophie's choices and for their tactical advantage, I guess I just don't get it. It's never been just as simple as her being a character that is about "I AM TORN BETWEEN DADDY AND BRUCE, WAHH" and nothing else.

When you're raised in a cult-like manner, an extreme patriarch family in which your Father is not only outwardly worshiped by others, but has convinced you wholly and utterly that he is the only person that can ever TRULY love you, it makes sense to not ever be able to fully tear yourself of your loyalty to him. It's a lot more complicated than Talia just putting on her Big Western Ackshun Girl Boots and that she should have just up and left her Father and never have taken after him in any of his psychological legacy if she was a strong girl with a personality!!!1 or what have you.

Having loyalty to a Father like R'as is not, in ANY way, a sign of weakness to me. Having grown up with an abhorrent individual for a Father, and I mean it, down to what you feel is most ethically despicable in life, he has done -- I don't see her struggle or her existence in "the middle" as weak or bad or showing her devoid of personality. It's just that that struggle is no longer relevant any longer, storywise. I place my family above almost anything else. There are people who treat me better and with more respect and promise me a better life than my clan ever has or will and yet I'd still not turn my back on them. I'll never agree with their ways and I can hold them in some contempt for their deeds, but to just abandon them is the highest form of disrespect and I can't comprehend it.

Talia is an efficient fighter. She's been trained from a young age in ways much more intense than Damian has, with many more years of psychological scarring and no Bat family in her life at a young age to intervene. She's intelligent and capable, she's emotional (She was willing to let go of her Father AND leave Bruce to his supposed death when she was faced with the choice of either that, or saving her son. "My decision is to be a good mother and to suffer for it."), and, despite her showing full ability to love like a "healthy" individual before these stories (and not just in her "own way"), she still always showed that she wasn't exactly aware of how to be a person, out in the world, without trying to emulate what traits she saw in her Father as the only thing that could get her by. Her Father was never truly loving to her, in the eyes of many, but it makes perfect sense for Talia to crave what she has seen as love from him, and to also think, in an attempt to save her ego as an adult, that his "ways" of raising her "fixed her up" and made her a good example of a person today (which is what anyone wants to believe they are), and would try to imitate that.

Date: 2010-05-05 11:49 pm (UTC)
cuntfucius: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cuntfucius
Bruce was always more of love in symbiosis for her. Status-wise, he had what she considered desirable: The respect of her Father. She recognized Bruce's compassion and his willingness to go out on a limb for her, and parts of her were interested in the possibility that someone outside of her Father could know her and love her. Just as she has shown to respect Selina in the past, to not be "jealous" of Bruce's love for her and to understand it, she never expected to be number one in Bruce's life. Bruce was the first person to show her a different type of acceptance and love in her life, but it was never one she could fully understand or even embrace, which is why Selina is the greater love in his life.

Maybe because Talia has never been anyones number one, that I guess you could buy her being incredibly pissed and willing to drop Damian for no longer being his number one -- maybe, although she never expected it of others in the past, she has been raised to see a child as an extension of family and reputation more so than an individual, so she's taking on her Father's traits more. I can't really explain this poor characterization much.

But really, from pre-crisis to post-crisis, she's always held traits that I've understood on a personal level. Submission, the tear between autonomy and individualism or collectivist familial loyalty, a longing devotion that is paired with a need to keep that devotion on a fantasy level, rather than something to be grasped at and realized with through defying everything you've been taught to stand for, conflict, a cruel streak, a capacity to love, a very understanding side, and a loyalty and love to someone that just won't diminish, despite all sane reasons trying to push it so.

None of these are what a lot of people consider admirable traits or compelling traits. I get that -- it's exactly what they don't like about her I guess that makes me uncomfortable, if only because not only do I relate to her but the entire thought of a woman being seen as weak, raised in an entirely different culture with different mores and expectations, and being seen as devoid of any will or agency because of all of this and to be held in contempt or apathy is just a thought I can't get behind.

This characterization is bad, but she's a woman in comics, and the blueprints for her character don't atypically fit in to what is widely held to be believed as admirable traits in a woman, let alone a person. I honestly find her suffering, willingness to go throughout many horrific trials in life just to be proven worthy to her Father, and the contradictory nature of her desires and beliefs, to the point where she can't fully fall back on them and can only fall back on what her father has given her for consistency and reliability, to be what makes her by far my favorite girl from the Bat mythology after the lovely Barbara Gordon.

Well, until now. She just looks like an evil muppet now.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cuntfucius - Date: 2010-05-06 12:47 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-05-05 11:56 pm (UTC)
mullon: (Old Bruce)
From: [personal profile] mullon
I have to admit, that's the most I have ever liked Damian, because he's not being a total ass. He should be abandoned by his mother every issue. Still don't like him as Robin though.

And now I'm starting to wish I had been paying attention to whoever Oberon Sexton is supposed to be, even if it is Morrison's Joker.

Date: 2010-05-06 12:28 am (UTC)
sistermagpie: Moon magic (Moon)
From: [personal profile] sistermagpie
Oh no. Another Fetus baby that's supposed to be important to me because Talia and Damian are making speeches about it. I don't get why they didn't smash the tank. Yeah, yeah, I know. She's probably got a vat of Bruce's man seed to keep churning out more of them but gah, this family is annoying.

The reveal (is it a problem spoiling the last page, btw?) was a big let down to me. I can understand why Dick didn't pick up on the "jokes" right away since they're completely not funny. I wish Dick would have actually said that to the Joker, which would have actually been in character for Dick.

Date: 2010-05-06 12:28 am (UTC)
jcbaggee: Jesus (Default)
From: [personal profile] jcbaggee
Shame you left out the most surprising panel: where Dick actually references Deathstroke's assault on Bludhaven.

Date: 2010-05-06 04:17 am (UTC)
akodo_rokku: (Default)
From: [personal profile] akodo_rokku
I thought that was pretty fantastic.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] jcbaggee - Date: 2010-05-06 05:38 am (UTC) - Expand

wow, third time's a charm on the html fail

Date: 2010-05-06 01:10 am (UTC)
benicio127: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
Also, these are not my words, but my friend vegaobscura's. However, I agree with him 100%.

As much as I enjoyed the reveal at the end, I thought that this issue was ruined by the fact that Grant Morrison has officially ruined Talia for us all.

Another Damian? Hopefully this was just a way to write her out of the series and we never have to hear a thing about the NEW spawn.

I really appreciated the explanation of the Domino jokes (here: http://rikdad.blogspot.com/2010/05/domino-jokes.html ) --but that doesn't fix the fact that they *needed* to be explained to me. It's typical Grant Morrison "over your heads I'll tell you later" stuff, honestly.

Date: 2010-05-06 01:12 am (UTC)
cmdr_zoom: (oops)
From: [personal profile] cmdr_zoom
I'm actually not at ALL surprised that the Mysterious Masked Man turned out to be the Joker. Go fig.

Date: 2010-05-06 01:29 am (UTC)
superfangirl1: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superfangirl1
Damn it I don't want to feel sorry for Damian. But I do feel for him here after what his outcast by him.

Date: 2010-05-06 01:31 am (UTC)
sinorhizobium: Peter and Sylar from heroes (Default)
From: [personal profile] sinorhizobium
LOL. I'm actually not shocked that there's a Damian fetus clone. I suspected for a while now that Talia had been mass producing little BatClones for a while now, ever since Batman #665, where we see Talia prepping Damian for surgery after he's been badly hurt and she requests a "full organ harvest and replacement." The room full o' floating bodies/parts reminded me of the room full of Rei-s from Neon Genesis Evangelion.

Lol, I wouldn't be surprised if the "Damian" that we have now is actually Daminan Version 3.0 or something and she just replaces him as the previous one dies off..
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