Jason Todd: instead of being crowbarred, he could have died of AIDS...

[benicio127]

There was apparently an idea that Jason could have died of AIDS, rather than be murdered.

Odd, but true. From this lovely interview with Judd Winick at SequentialTarts.com here:http://www.sequentialtart.com/article.php?id=1711

I'd never heard of this at all, had any of you? Interesting, but obviously Jason dying of AIDS would never have allowed for Bruce to have the intense grief and pain over Jason's death, nor would it have made it the second worst thing to happen to him, after his parents' deaths.

Here's some choice bits:

Deciding to put my disturbingly encyclopedic knowledge of all things Jason Todd to good use, I ask Winick if he's ever heard about a storyline that was planned but never done, wherein Jason's death would have been from AIDS.

"I think it was a stunning, unbelievable thing. In the time of fears and epidemic, to have had a superhero have it, I was stunned and proud to hear about that. But they were not able to do it. I always forget to ask Denny [O'Neil] about that, about what happened.

"Denny's been great about me bringing Jason back. I was really worried about how he'd react, because the back of the Death in the Family trade, where Jason dies, there's a big quote on the back from Denny saying 'to bring him back would be a really sleazy stunt'. I got really nervous talking to him!

"But he said to me 'no, no, it would've been a sleazy stunt for us to do it, that's what I meant. If we'd brought him back six issues later.' It would have ruined their great story. But every generation has to work out their own ways to tell a great story."

"But, getting back to what we were talking about before, I think what they ended up doing with Jason's death was much better, for the story, than the AIDS storyline would have been. Because it wouldn't have been Batman's failure, for Robin to die of a terminal disease. Batman's failure is the Joker killing Robin in a warehouse."




And a page featuring one my favourite ships...




Mia and Jason... now you have one more thing in common...
Also, to me? This scene is so friggin' hot. Erotic asphyxiation...

suggested tags: char: robin/red hood/jason todd, creator: judd winick, char: speedy/mia dearden, title: green arrow

Comments

[icon_uk]

There is no way in hell that in the late 1980's, DC would have had their mainstream 14 year old Robin be revealed to have picked up HIV from a career as a sex worker. Blood transfusion perhaps, or picking up one of his (variably) junkie mother's needles and accidentally stabbing himself perhaps, but that would be as far as it went and even that would be pushing it.

Though this IS 1980's Jim Starlin, so I suppose anything is possible.

[jlroberson]

Suddenly a lot of the Midnight Mink & Chippy stuff in BRAT PACK shortly after Todd's death takes on a different level of meaning, especially as Veitch had worked at DC at that time(a full employee, so he could get health insurance and both write & pencil SWAMP THING), and would have known all this backstage stuff.

[icon_uk]

Perhaps, but Midnight Mink and Chippy struck me as just another 80/90's grim'n'gritty sniggering extension of the tired old trope of Batman and Robin being in a paedophilic sexual relationship.

Seemed to be more "More Wertham than even Wetham ever imagined" than anything else.

[whitesycamore]

I was speculating more about how Starlin planned to write it. I know that kind of story would never have actually seen the light of day. 1980's be damned, there's no way DC would do that now ... to a male character.

It might make sexual exploitation/abuse seem like a serious human problem rather than a convenient backstory to tack on to almost. every. DC female.*

* Although I actually support Winick's decision to have Mia test positive. A lot of that story arc was well-written and really touching IMO. And it's not like Winick came up with Mia's history of sexual abuse and prostitution in the first place.

[benicio127]

Although I actually support Winick's decision to have Mia test positive. A lot of that story arc was well-written and really touching IMO. And it's not like Winick came up with Mia's history of sexual abuse and prostitution in the first place.

I am completely fine with Mia being HIV positive and really enjoyed the stories as well. It was a natural progression and it was what fueled her to become Speedy. Unfortunately, it seems, it is usually turns into another instance of which fans decry Winick as "pushing his agenda." It's unfortunate that they can't see beyond their own issues with it and see it for what it is, that it makes Mia an unique and interesting character. I've never seen her as just another Afternoon Special, but writers have been ignoring it as of late it would seem. She's a superhero grounded in a very unfortunate reality.
(Although there is that gay bashing GL issue that could be considered as the Afternoon Special style, but I believe Winick won a GLAAD award for it, and I haven't read it so I can't really comment).

[cloud_wolf]

Seeing people criticize Winnick for those stories is tiring. Complain about his writing (I do think he came up with quite a few stinkers), don't whine about him including marginalized minorities and the things that happen to them.

[benicio127]

So agreed. Winick is a good writer, but again agreed, he's had some where I've been like ... LOLwhatthefrak is this?!

But then again, there are fans who treat Morrison like he's some kind of god, which is so strange to me. I wonder if they're even reading the same stuff I am. I loved All-Star Superman and I'm enjoying Batman and Robin, but Batman RIP? Club of Heroes? Um, no thanks! And he introduces a villain -- Dr. Hurt -- who is the most boring villain in probably all of creation. Ooooh he's the devil zomg how edgy!

[cloud_wolf]

LOL, have you ever tried doing a search on Winick on TVTropes? His main page was obviously not written by a fan. I mean, I only like some of his work but dude. I'm still boggling about why he's listed under Creator Breakdown.

Haha, Morrison. Guess it depends which comms you visit. I thought Animal Man (which I've never read) was universally loved until I hit a comm where everybody thought AM was his moment of total suck. I've always wondered what the ratio fans who think Morrison is god : Morrison has issues (with characterization) is, because it truly differs from place to place.

[starwolf_oakley]

Morrison is sometimes really good and sometimes makes you wonder "Maybe I took the drugs that Morrison took while writing this story, the story will make more sense."

[benicio127]

Yeah, CBR and DC message boards seem to practically orgasm over everything Morrison touches. It seems to be much more rational over here. XD

Winick is listed under Creator Breakdown?! What. I feel bad for him, it's so ridiculous. And in the interviews I've seen of him, he's just like "I'm not really liked" ...like he jokes about it and stuff, but I'm not exactly sure what he's done to garner that kind of hate. Because I mean, umm Loeb? The guy that killed Stephanie? Cause those creators, now that I can see.

[cloud_wolf]

Apparently, wanting to write about gay people or people with HIV after Pedro died constitutes a breakdown. The more you know.

Oh, trust me, Loeb's writing gets a lot of crap, but they want to make sure you know it's not him they hate, but his writing. (Seriously, it reads like a eulogy)

Semi-OT: Having said all that, this did make me facepalm. (scroll past the comic book legend about Maguire.)

[benicio127]

Loeb worked on Teen Wolf?! I love that movie! #themoreyouknow XD

I think I'd seen that before about Winick. It's totally facepalm worthy. And why would he have voted for Jason to die? I'm not sure even which story to believe now, tbh!

[starwolf_oakley]

Bill Willingham did an interesting thing with Mia in ROBIN #146-147, where Robin and the Teen Titans search Luthor's labs to heal Superboy during INFINITE CRISIS.

Mia says something like, "If you see a vial marked 'Luthor's secret HIV cure,' you'll let me know, right?"