Jason Todd: instead of being crowbarred, he could have died of AIDS...

[benicio127]

There was apparently an idea that Jason could have died of AIDS, rather than be murdered.

Odd, but true. From this lovely interview with Judd Winick at SequentialTarts.com here:http://www.sequentialtart.com/article.php?id=1711

I'd never heard of this at all, had any of you? Interesting, but obviously Jason dying of AIDS would never have allowed for Bruce to have the intense grief and pain over Jason's death, nor would it have made it the second worst thing to happen to him, after his parents' deaths.

Here's some choice bits:

Deciding to put my disturbingly encyclopedic knowledge of all things Jason Todd to good use, I ask Winick if he's ever heard about a storyline that was planned but never done, wherein Jason's death would have been from AIDS.

"I think it was a stunning, unbelievable thing. In the time of fears and epidemic, to have had a superhero have it, I was stunned and proud to hear about that. But they were not able to do it. I always forget to ask Denny [O'Neil] about that, about what happened.

"Denny's been great about me bringing Jason back. I was really worried about how he'd react, because the back of the Death in the Family trade, where Jason dies, there's a big quote on the back from Denny saying 'to bring him back would be a really sleazy stunt'. I got really nervous talking to him!

"But he said to me 'no, no, it would've been a sleazy stunt for us to do it, that's what I meant. If we'd brought him back six issues later.' It would have ruined their great story. But every generation has to work out their own ways to tell a great story."

"But, getting back to what we were talking about before, I think what they ended up doing with Jason's death was much better, for the story, than the AIDS storyline would have been. Because it wouldn't have been Batman's failure, for Robin to die of a terminal disease. Batman's failure is the Joker killing Robin in a warehouse."




And a page featuring one my favourite ships...




Mia and Jason... now you have one more thing in common...
Also, to me? This scene is so friggin' hot. Erotic asphyxiation...

suggested tags: char: robin/red hood/jason todd, creator: judd winick, char: speedy/mia dearden, title: green arrow

Comments

[freddylloyd]

We might have to speak of Jason's following or reputation when he was alive (in post-Crisis form), when he was dead, and now that he's alive again.

In the first stage, Jason was a bit of a muddle, and unpopular enough that the Batman team was planning to remove him as Robin whether or not readers voted to kill him.

In the next stage, Jason's symbolic meaning and importance was hammered home. I don't know of any fan pressure in that period to bring him back or tell more stories about him, though.

Finally, Jeph Loeb and Judd Winick recognized what an emotional challenge Jason's return would be for Bruce Wayne and his family. That led to the current stage. The results have been quite mixed, however. It's a lot easier for multiple writers to keep a character consistent if he's dead.

[benicio127]

The results have been quite mixed, however. It's a lot easier for multiple writers to keep a character consistent if he's dead.

I agree and I can't for the life of me understand why writers seem to have so much trouble keeping him consistent when I've seen fans do a better job with it.

It hasn't been all bad, as I detailed here , but he hasn't had a really good story line since Under the Hood. (Teen Titans issue was during that time. Batman and Robin was enjoyable, but not without its flaws) And he's only really popped up now and then when needed. Despite that, he's still managed to gain quite a few fans. I feel like it's like rooting for the underdog, really.

However, Winick, who is his re-creator, is going to be writing him in this new mini and my hope is that writers can see his characterization (which was pretty distinct, I thought, in Under the Hood) and continue it following the aftermath of Batman and Robin and into the future. *Waiting on my Blue Lantern ring any day now....*

[freddylloyd]

Some fanfiction writers may indeed have a more consistent grasp of Jason's personality, but they don't have actual comics writers' responsibility to tell a gripping story that fits into the larger corporate narrative. Unpaid writers can concentrate on their conception of characters and leave out superhero action, the next crossover, and, for that matter, plot. (And I say that as someone who writes occasional fanfiction myself.)

At this point, Jason Todd is a secondary character. He hasn't developed the depth or the "box office appeal" to be more than a foil for Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, and Tim Drake. So, with the possible exception of Winick's miniseries, Jason's character is going to be squeezed and adjusted to fit the needs of those other characters' narratives.

Sometimes that works. I think Under the Hood is very good superhero storytelling. (I don’t like the issue of Teen Titans when Jason pays a visit to Tim.)

Nightwing: Brothers in Blood might have gone off the rails even before it got started when DC decided not to have Dick Grayson die in Infinite Crisis as planned. I'm not sure about the timing of publications, but apparently that original ending was still an option until rather late.

That leads to the possibility that Bruce Jones was hired to show Jason taking over the role of Nightwing, trying to establish himself as a new sort of crime-fighter in New York. But then Dick Grayson survived, and Jones scrambled to reshape his ideas. Some of the things Dick does in that storyline fit better with the character of Jason, struggling to find his way.

[benicio127]

At this point, Jason Todd is a secondary character. He hasn't developed the depth or the "box office appeal" to be more than a foil for Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, and Tim Drake. So, with the possible exception of Winick's miniseries, Jason's character is going to be squeezed and adjusted to fit the needs of those other characters' narratives.

True and that's why he only pops up now and then and that's probably why we get these inconsistencies.

Some of the things Dick does in that storyline fit better with the character of Jason, struggling to find his way.

Yes, I've definitely thought Dick was out of character in most of that arc: dressing up in a Nightwing outfit for a public fashion show was a very odd choice for the man who was so concerned about his secret identity (and Bruce's to that extent) that he kept his mask on when he had that one-night stand with Helena.

Had Bruce Jones ever written Dick prior to that? Do the writers have to kind of prove they can write these characters before actually getting a chance to write them?

I think Under the Hood is very good superhero storytelling. (I don’t like the issue of Teen Titans when Jason pays a visit to Tim.)

Under the Hood was great. It does what a good comic should. It made me laugh, made me cry, made me think. We don't get that too often in comics where it's actually done well. (Mad Love is the only other that I can think of off the top of my head that's made me have those same emotions).

You didn't like the Teen Titans ish? I loved it. What didn't you like about it?

[freddylloyd]

Had Bruce Jones ever written Dick prior to that? Do the writers have to kind of prove they can write these characters before actually getting a chance to write them?

Jones had written superhero comics for over a decade, and was in a very successful run with the Hulk. So if DC was looking for someone to write Jason Todd—a mix of noble desires and major anger issues that make him dangerous—Jones could have looked like a good bet. Again, this is speculation.

As for the Teen Titans issue that introduces Jason to Tim, I missed what I like about Jason's personality in Under the Hood: his far-sighted planning, sarcasm, and rage about crime. Of course, a lot of that is the difference between a long, multi-issue arc and a single issue.

[benicio127]

As for the Teen Titans issue that introduces Jason to Tim, I missed what I like about Jason's personality in Under the Hood: his far-sighted planning, sarcasm, and rage about crime. Of course, a lot of that is the difference between a long, multi-issue arc and a single issue.

That's what I really like about Winick's Jason as well. The snark/sarcasm/smart-ass attitude. I found Geoff Johns' Jason to be sympathetic, and that he had planned out the event, but he was much more angry than anything. He was much more like Loeb's Jason, I think.