Cloudhopper book Two; requesting your particular expertise

[geoffsebesta]

Hello scans_daily, I have a question about comics and you all know more about comics than anyone else I know.

My question is not a simple one, though.



How can I make this comic better?



This is book two of Cloudhopper. Book one can be read at my dreamwidth page:

http://geoffsebesta.dreamwidth.org/311.html





































































































~After this comes dinner comedy, a shocking revelation, an extremely elaborate action sequence, and a long nap. It'll be thirty-four more pages.


I was originally going to have book two of Cloudhopper done for SDCC. That's not going to happen now. Instead, I used that time to make an awesome black-and-white version of book one that I can actually afford to print (as opposed to the color books), made a poster, and making t-shirts. Much more practical. So now that I've flubbed my deadline so pleasantly, I have a bit longer to finish book two.

Which is great, because there's something a bit off about book two. It needs more time. I think I could make some cuts, though I'm not sure where yet. There's some confusion in the color scheme and some extremely poorly drawn necks. I sometimes have trouble with necks and elbows.

So now there is an extra six months to make this comic amazing. Suggestions?

Please be as specific or vague or blunt or meandering as you please! And thanks for reading!

title: Cloudhopper
creator: Geoff Sebesta

Comments

[taggerung301]

Looks pretty good

It's a trifle confusing, but a second read through of what you posted cleared up any uncertainties I had about what was going on and what the reader is supposed to know at this point

If I had money, I would buy it
:D

[geoffsebesta]

Where was it confusing?

If I had any money I would print it :)

[big_daddy_d]

Keeping climbing the mountain and you'll get there.

[geoffsebesta]

Oh, no, not in the comics industry. Probably not.

The only good thing that's happened to the industry in the last twenty years is a serious political conversation about universal health care. Pay scales and sales are so far down from the 80s that it's sick. It's not that people don't read comics, either.

[nezchan]

The lettering is a bit off-putting, honestly. It's a bit hard to read in spots, and the uneven lining up of the characters doesn't help. Find a nice font and stick with that, maybe thin out the lines on the word balloons except when a character is shouting.

Also, I'd pay more attention to composition in your individual panels, to make the storytelling as clear as possible. There are a lot of places where it's hard to guess where the characters are going to be, and the flow from one panel to the next is often awkward. This is stuff you can deal with in the thumbnail stage, and except in cases where you want to put the brakes on (character is disoriented, etc.), you want everything as explicit and clear as possible.

Also, try to keep in the 180 degree rule in mind. If one character is on the right and one on the left, don't suddenly change sides unless you have a really good reason and you show the switch happening. Trading sides like with the freaking out woman, or when the main character is looking over the edge, gets confusing for a reader and gets in the way of clarity.

Overall though, it's good. The art looks nice, although there are a few spots that seem rough or rushed, but that's stuff you'll improve with experience so it's not a big deal. There are a lot of really great bits here, like when they're first arriving at the river, the bit where Patron says there's no way down, the bit where they're rolling down the cloud hill. That stuff's magic, and you want to showcase it more. More (as Even Dahm put it) self-indulgent splashes and establishing shots. You've got a lush environment here, so play that up.

Good luck with the comic!

[geoffsebesta]

somehow I responded to the wrong thread.

Anyway, FONTS???!??!?! Over my dead body, sir or madam!

What specific violations of the Rule of 180 are you looking at? I'm pretty aware of composition, I think as a general rule you'll find the compositional errors in Cloudhopper are more from bad understanding of color depth than ineffective sight lines, but I'm always down with correcting an error.

I dunno about the scene with the screaming lady, there are definite problems with it (people are supposed to find it confusing, but it's not the right kind of confusing yet...) but switching her to the bottom left seems to produce the unbalanced effect I was looking for...

[taggerung301]

When the old guy pulled out the gun, I thought for a moment that he was mugging the main character or something - it only occurred to me a page or two later that he was only being paranoid about turning his back on the main character

Also, the crazy lady threw me off for a second - with all of the fantastical things happening to the main character, I thought for a moment that he really WAS surrounded by all of those flying cars and whatnot

My confusion was cleared up pretty quickly, it's nothing really to worry about

[protogarrett]

I am intrigued. I want to know more about where he is and how he got there.

[geoffsebesta]

Font? NEVARRRR

Noted about composition. I actually thumbnail everything and then draw it in layers and completely change everything. Nearly every character is fully drawn, for example, even when they're standing behind something.

Where specifically were you looking at for composition problems?

[adamant_ink]

LOL! Well if you're really insistent on avoiding fonts, then for the sake of better readability you can improve the lettering. Maybe use a finer brush or something :)

[geoffsebesta]

It's all done with a tablet PC. I think I see part of your problem....

the thing is, if you want your webcomic to also function as a print comic, you have no choice but to make the words really, really big.

But yeah, can you point out any lines that are particualrly hard to read?

[adamant_ink]

Hmm, the worst of it was that part where the woman hallucinates (?) and screams about dragons. I understand that you intentionally made her rant a bit illegible, but maybe not to the point that some readers would give up trying to read it.

Personally I don't fond it too bad, but since I saw someone else bring up the subject of lettering I thought I'd drop a suggestion. The thing is your letters don't look big at all... in fact most look quite small. Thick brush doesn't necessarily translate to more legible when you're writing in lowercase. I guess the most reasonable solution is to try to improve the penmanship :P (there's a reason why lettering is a skill in itself)

[geoffsebesta]

d00d mah lettarz are owsum no siriusly

Alright I'll go back over this one and fix up the letters. Anywhere else?

If you go back to book one you can see a much more realized version of my lettering. I've been rushing all this book, and changing directions constantly, and that's not really the best thing for a work.

[adamant_ink]

Personally I find most of it fairly legible. But yeah, it's a good idea not to rush the lettering too much. A lot of comic readers are very sensitive to flow and readability (see Scott McCloud, blah blah blah... :D)

I think the content is superb though. Gorgeous.

[psychopathicus_rex]

I would skip the joint-smoking scene, myself. It's a little weird, and kinda slows things down a bit, and I'm not sure it really contributes much. Also, I would clarify just what Patron's intentions are when he pulls out the gun; that confused me a bit. Otherwise, I'd say you're doing great - the overall set-up of this kinda reminds me of a persistent fantasy I used to have as an itsy-bitsy one. Good stuff.

[geoffsebesta]

what that part needs, believe it or not, is bamboo leaves. The separation between them and the background was a conceptual idea that didn't quite work out. This is all setting up a big joke in the third book -- basically Dan doesn't hear a word Patron says.

[psychopathicus_rex]

I'll take your word for it. I kinda have to.

[geoffsebesta]

Unless you're gonna redraw it yourself, yes. You do.

[psychopathicus_rex]

Which I'm not, so yeah.