proteus_lives: (Default)
[personal profile] proteus_lives posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Greetings True Believers!

It's time for another Thor post. In these scans we Asgardians at play.

I love scans of Balder and Volstagg being awesome. I'm seriously becoming obsessed with Thor's supporting cast.

For Odin! For Asgard! For Midgard! For Thor! For Balder!

Suggested Tags: char: balder the brave, char: volstagg, char: hogun. char: loki, title: thor, creator: j michael straczynski, creator: olivier coipel, publisher: marvel comics



It's game-time! The big V is leading the charge!







I can't decide who is more awesome.

1. Volstagg with his battle-skills and awesome dialogue or...

2. Balder gangsta-leaning on his Bantha with Loki, his shaman, his owl, his babes, his loin-cloth dude and his wise old dudes.

Later Balder and Loki talk about Asgard's situation.



"--bedded down with each other--" Oh, Loki just say it! "Hey Balder, knock on my chamber-door tonight and I'll show you what mischief is all about."







And Loki plants more seeds. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Loki had a hand in starting that argument.

Date: 2010-06-30 04:21 pm (UTC)
valtyr: (No u)
From: [personal profile] valtyr
Metal pasties? Okay, I concede that their nipples aren't on display, but the addition of an item worn primarily either for sexual titillation or to maintain sufficient coverage to comply with laws still does not make their displayed flesh equivalent to the flesh the guy is displaying.

Seriously, you're arguing in all seriousness that a bevy of languishing near-nude ladies in thongs and pasties is equal to a muscular near-nude man standing straight and holding a polearm? Do you think old Conan covers are wonderfully gender-equal too?

If the man was sprawled on the furs, or the women were standing armed, we wouldn't have an issue, but to suggest that the Asgardians see a man with a loincloth and spear as a policeman with a novelty truncheon is a hell of a stretch. The simplest explanation is just that it's sexism in which the boys get to fight and have fun and the girls get to look hot. Which also explains why the Norse Goddesses don't seem to get a look in.

Date: 2010-06-30 05:05 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Metal pasties? Okay, I concede that their nipples aren't on display, but the addition of an item worn primarily either for sexual titillation or to maintain sufficient coverage to comply with laws still does not make their displayed flesh equivalent to the flesh the guy is displaying.

Sorry, but again I have to disagree.

The guy is naked except for a small dangling cloth over his junk that could be pushed aside by a gust of wind. The thin straps holding it seem to indicate that he is wearing a thong as well, and his elaborated headgear accentuates his nakedness ("baby you can leave your hat on").

So, yes, IMO both the guy and the women are, individually, offering equal amount of fanservice. The big difference if that the guy is one and the women are many (and as you pointed out, the problem is aggravated by the fact that there are so few goddesses in Asgard, I definitely agree that that is a big problem), but it's a matter of numbers, not outfits.

Seriously, you're arguing in all seriousness that a bevy of languishing near-nude ladies in thongs and pasties is equal to a muscular near-nude man standing straight and holding a polearm?

I'm arguing in all seriousness that the amount of flesh displayed by the guy is comparable to the amount of flesh displayed by one of the women. Again, I think the problem is with numbers, not outfits.

And yes, the guy is standing and the women aren't. That's definitely not equal. But since it seems to me that both the guy and the women are decorations, I don't see it as a huge difference either.

I didn't say "there is also a random naked dude, so it's perfectly equal". But the presence of the random naked dude lessens the inequality a lot, to the point that it doesn't bother me very much.

Do you think old Conan covers are wonderfully gender-equal too?

Of course not. Because in those covers Conan fights monsters, saves damsels in distress, and generally gets important stuff done. He is The Hero, and the focus is on his actions.

The guy in this comic is just standing, pointlessly holding a phallic weapon, and looking pretty. We don't even see his face.

Date: 2010-06-30 05:30 pm (UTC)
valtyr: (Iron Reindeer)
From: [personal profile] valtyr
Copying and pasting what I said above:

"Having nearly-naked women lying on furs before your throne has a completely different context from having a nearly-naked man carrying a spear and wearing a helm standing next to your throne. There's no point arguing about it."

But the presence of the random naked dude lessens the inequality a lot, to the point that it doesn't bother me very much.

I don't think it lessens it a lot. I'd go as far as a bit. And it still bothers me. It's jarred me before, that the males are so covered up you can't even see their hair, and yet the women are stripped right down - even Kelda wears pretty damn revealing garb.

The guy in this comic is just standing, pointlessly holding a phallic weapon, and looking pretty.

Which is still more than the women are getting to do. And his prettiness - as you say, we can't see his face - revolves around his physical strength and musculature, whereas the women's prettiness is not.

Date: 2010-06-30 06:09 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
"Having nearly-naked women lying on furs before your throne has a completely different context from having a nearly-naked man carrying a spear and wearing a helm standing next to your throne. There's no point arguing about it."

If you don't want to argue about it, don't. But if you are having a debate with me, I'm supposed to reply, and my reply is that I don't see the context as completely different.

I've already said that I don't think the two things are equal. But at the same time, both the guy and the women are sexy decorations, both are there solely and specifically to exalt Balder's status with their nakedness, so I don't think the context is completely different either.

I don't think it lessens it a lot. I'd go as far as a bit. And it still bothers me. It's jarred me before, that the males are so covered up you can't even see their hair, and yet the women are stripped right down - even Kelda wears pretty damn revealing garb.

Now you are talking about different characters. Kelda doesn't even appear in these scans. I'm just talking about the naked people, not about Asgardians in general.

Though, just for the record, Sif always wears very practical and modest clothes, she doesn't show any skin.

Which is still more than the women are getting to do. And his prettiness - as you say, we can't see his face - revolves around his physical strength and musculature, whereas the women's prettiness is not.

Now you are talking about a different topic.

Beauty ideals, and the way they are force-fed to us by society until they shape our minds and bodies (for example, women are told that "muscular women are ugly and mannish", and are strongly encouraged to avoid building any muscle), are a HUGE issue. It has been debated left and right by countless people since pretty much forever, with no resolution.

Frankly, I don't think you can hold it against this story. We as society are trained to see slim women and muscular men as attractive, so if the writer thinks to give King Balder an escort of attractive man and women, of course it's going to be conventionally attractive man and women.

You can't really bash this comic because it used widely-accepted ideals of beauty for its throwaway eyecandy.

Date: 2010-06-30 08:24 pm (UTC)
valtyr: (no thanks)
From: [personal profile] valtyr
No, on this we're not debating. A debate implies some kind of sharing of opinions, and if I get any of your sexist opinions on me I might hork. So I'm just telling you you're wrong. I'm going to tell you why you're wrong, and then I'm going to stop replying unless you come up with something irresistably heinously stupid in response, because if you can't comprehend this you're either wilfully not understanding, or you're a Martian and just can't grok it; and I don't have the time to waste on either of those options.

1) The context is completely different because the man is armed and balanced and upright and wearing a piece of armour no sillier than the other men's armour, and the women are lying and relaxed and unarmed and wearing clothes designed to titillate. These are, unsurprisingly, completely different situations to the extent I can't believe anyone needs it pointed out even once.

2) The theory they are both there as pretty pieces of meat (and don't tell me I'm talking about something different when you brought that up) is made kind of ridiculous in the context of any culture ever. If he is there decoratively, (which, no, is not the same as ceremonial; ceremonial positions, especially those which involved being armed near one's monarch, tend to be highly honoured positions) it's to emphasize his strength and power, not his sexual availability. Which is, again, sexist; whether it's reflective of a broader culture of sexism doesn't make it somehow less sexist.

3) This sexism can be found when taking a larger look at JMS's run; men get clothes and armour, women get draperies or pasties. The Valkyries have apparently gone on holiday. Sif is literally possessed by Loki. Kelda's plot is all about her Man. And there are virtually no other female Asgardians except the nameless naked ones. I wonder what they do when they're not nakeding? Do they keep them in a cupboard? In a stall next to the ox? They don't seem to put on clothes and go to town meetings.

You can't really bash this comic because it used widely-accepted ideals of beauty for its throwaway eyecandy.

Oh, I see. Any kind of criticism is bashing, right. You are looking straight-faced at a harem of almost naked babes in 2010 belonging to a man we are supposed to believe is just and wise and a good ruler to all his people, not just those in possession of a penis, and saying "It's not sexist because his guard is almost naked too and if you say otherwise you're bashing!"

And I think you'll find I absolutely can criticize a comic for buying into a sexist culture and not bothering to consider the implications. THIS RIGHT HERE? I'M CRITICIZING! WHEEE! JMS, YOUR RUN ON THOR WAS DISAPPOINTINGLY SEXIST AND I EXPECTED BETTER FROM YOU!

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