mad: Jason Todd says a lot of things (Jason Todd)
[personal profile] mad posting in [community profile] scans_daily
I had a very negative reaction to the preview for Birds of Prey #3, and wrote about it on my Tumblr, but am re-posting it here, with images added for illustrative purposes.

In total this post contains about one page's worth of art/panels from the BoP #3 previews, maybe a bit over. (Most of them are from the preview on the DC Comics website, but one is from the preview on IGN.) Also, I've included the cover art to Gotham City Sirens #9.

Fair warning: this post contexts a lot of text.



The Penguin is injured and hallucinated that the Birds are...well, doing this:





This book is breaking my heart. I’m so tired of Ed Benes’ art. I’m tired of Huntress’s stupid belly window costume. I’m tired of the Birds sporting wedgies and their asses being constantly tilted toward the camera, and I’m tired of all the Birds’ faces looking the same. (That the Gail Simone’s writing here has the characters stripping/seducing, even in a villain’s hallucination, is also alienating and tiresome.)



It’s not something that’s limited to Benes, of course, but some comic book artists have the profoundly irritating habit of making most women’s faces look the same, while giving a huge amount of character to men’s faces. Check out the Penguin, and then look at all the women’s faces. It’s a similar thing with Guillem March in Gotham City Sirens. Dudes like the Riddler and Penguin get personality and individuality in their faces, but the women’s faces are kept as bland as possible.

It sucks that while we have TWO books featuring female team-ups in Gotham, both are mired in cheesecake that, in my opinion, gets in the way of the storytelling. It pulls me out of the story and kills my enjoyment. It especially sucks as a reader, because both books are written by people whose work I usually like, and characters I’m interested in following.



I realize that cheesecake and difficulty drawing women’s faces is by no means limited to these particular comics. I haven’t been reading GCS, and it’s been a while since I’ve even bothered to look at a preview of it, so for all I know, the art’s changed over time. But what I did see when the series launched was enough to put me off the book. (Also, the constant high heels on Catwoman, Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn.)

I’m just tired of wanting to read books about female characters I like, and having to put up with excessive cheesecake. I don’t even MIND cheesecake or beefcake when it’s done well and doesn’t overpower the story. In the right context, I can enjoy it. But when it’s constant and mindless cheesecake in superhero stories, it grates on my nerves.

And it’s not just because it’s tiresome to constantly see your heroes and favourite characters sexually objectified for readers who are not me (just in case I needed reminding that mainstream comics don’t really care whether or not they have me for an audience), but because I see parallels to how women are objectified elsewhere.

I’m not even really talking about porn or other things aimed at straight men, where you do see those kinds of spine-injuring postures and objectification. I’m talking about how every magazine and advertisement aimed at WOMEN do similar things: soft lighting, make-up and airbrushing, eliminating any visual hint of “flaws” and personality. The Penguin's face could only belong to one person, and that is Oswald "Penguin" Cobblepot. Oracle, Huntress, Canary, and Dove, on the other hand? Put the same hair colour/style and mask on all of them and they all look exactly the same. The Penguin gets loads of detail and individuality on his face. But attempt to give a woman that same level of detail in a drawing, and people will probably view it as ugly.



Culturally, we give men permission to get wrinkles, grow stubble, and leave their grey hair un-dyed. We allow and enjoy visual representation of individuality and personality in men, we allow them the chance to prove their worth outside of their looks. We can love and enjoy, say, Jonah Hex, as a protagonist and hero, and we can love and enjoy Two-Face as a villain. But a woman? She must be beautiful, and if she’s not, chances are that her entire motivation and personality are wrapped up in the fact that she’s not conventionally attractive.

I can’t remember where I read it, but someone once said that women don’t wear make-up to look pretty, they wear make-up to feel human.

Perhaps that’s an oversimplification and is not a universal explanation for every woman who puts on make-up, or for every comic artist who simplifies women’s faces to the point where they all look the same, or for every magazine that photoshops away every wrinkle and smidgen of fat off of women’s bodies. It’s hard to articulate, but there’s always an implicit rule that women who don’t fit into the conventionally attractive mold will be rejected, individually and by society. That threat of rejection, of being dismissed, seen as sub-human, unworthy of any consideration or respect, it’s in male gaze, it’s in superhero comics, it’s in advertising, it’s in consumerism, it’s in products/magazines/advertising/other content aimed at women, it’s in the news and politics, it’s in strangers’ eyes, and it’s in the mirror. Every day. Often it’s subtle and easily ignored or goes entirely unnoticed, often it’s not and it doesn’t.

There’s a reason why I’d rather pick up Birds of Prey than Cosmo or whatever. It’s because I expect a superhero book to pull me in and make me forget about that crap, to make me feel at least a little bit empowered. It’s a superhero fantasy, and it should be fun, exciting and inspiring, not aggravating and tiring.

I realize that this is a very personal reaction to certain styles of art, that some find it difficult to draw women’s faces, and that there are other forces at work besides an artist’s particular style. Not everyone may think along these lines or feel this way, but when I read this preview of BoP, all I felt was tired. It’s not just a problem of one artist I don’t like on one book I should like, but just another facet of a much larger problem that manifests so frequently in comics, and practically everywhere one looks. When I say I’m tired of mindless cheesecake in superhero comics, it’s not just because it’s a problem in comics, but because I see it as a part of a continuum of a larger problem.

I’m tired of it.

Try to imagine what this scene would look like if the male character were swapped for a female one, and the female characters for male ones. If it were Batman and Superman sexily posing and stripping for a daydreaming, fully-clothed (non-spandexed, non-sexualized) Catwoman being creepy, DC would likely never publish it because it’d probably be seen as too demeaning to their favourite superhero guys.

You’d never see a beefcake equivalent to Gotham City Sirens, where every cover has, say, Dick Grayson, Roy Harper, and Wally West sexily and seductively posing together, with their skintight costumes highlighting their nipples, crotches and butts all at the same time. Despite how (b)romantic Superman/Batman can get, you’ll never see the same kind of sexual objectification of them in that book.

And if you believe that men are equally objectified and idealized as women are in superhero comics, you should compare and contrast. (Men are idealized as being “strong”, women are idealized as being “sexy”. Not the same thing, not equal.)

I have no idea what Gail Simone was aiming for when writing the scene we see in the BoP #3 preview, but it doesn’t appeal to me. In a recent interview, she talked about Ed Benes’ art:

That said, he is of the Brazilian tradition, so his art is always hugely sexy and sexually charged. It can be a bit much for some, but I never sense the, you know, the hate that some artists bring to their sexy drawings. Again, it’s like the Suicide Girls, and I’ve used them as an example before. What they do is so free of the kind of self- and other-loathing that infuses so much porn and cheesecake. It’s more about a sense of joy and freedom, and the effect is different.


I guess Your Mileage May Vary. I don’t see “joy and freedom” in it, but rather the same old trappings.
Page 1 of 2 << [1] [2] >>

Date: 2010-07-17 06:04 am (UTC)
philippos42: (invisible)
From: [personal profile] philippos42
Well, you're not wrong.

Date: 2010-07-17 06:59 am (UTC)
cmdr_zoom: (oops)
From: [personal profile] cmdr_zoom
Motto. :(

Date: 2010-07-17 06:29 am (UTC)
darklorelei: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darklorelei
Good post.

Date: 2010-07-17 06:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] minyandu.livejournal.com
At least it's much better than BATMAN STRIKE AGAIN. I dropped that book in the middle simply because one more nake girl scene I was gonna get sick of my own body.

I don't hate make-up. I like it when I'm not in good condition and a good make-up cheer me up. I just hate people(especially men) making it sounds like you're nothing when you don't have it on your face. Darn, I still remember that guy said my face can frighten ghost away simply because other girls were wearing make-up and I'm still waiting for the busy dresser because I can't do it myself. I wanted to punch him. I still want to punch him. But that was my friend's wedding and I can't/shouldn't/was not supposed to punch a guy in my friend's wedding!

Date: 2010-07-17 08:01 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex
You should have tracked him down later and THEN punched him. Good grief, what a jerk.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] minyandu.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-17 09:11 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 09:27 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] minyandu.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-17 09:45 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 10:19 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] yaseen101 - Date: 2010-07-17 09:15 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] minyandu.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-17 09:37 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] yaseen101 - Date: 2010-07-17 10:21 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] punishermax - Date: 2010-07-17 09:17 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] janegray - Date: 2010-07-18 11:25 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-18 01:37 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk - Date: 2010-07-18 04:12 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] minyandu.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-18 12:38 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] frostedone - Date: 2010-07-19 12:36 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] minyandu.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-19 01:00 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-07-17 06:36 am (UTC)
ext_446046: (Default)
From: [identity profile] chekeichan.livejournal.com
What's going on with Zinda's chest in the 3rd panel presented? It makes no sense, man!

BoP is invalidating my theory on drawing and writing in comics, which is that the latter is far more important than the former. Benes's art is detracting so much from Simone's writing that this comic is unreadable. At least, unreadable without sympathetic wincing and looking away from the page in embarrassment.

Date: 2010-07-17 06:42 am (UTC)
demonprawn: (Default)
From: [personal profile] demonprawn
"What's going on with Zinda's chest in the 3rd panel presented? It makes no sense, man!"

It's her right breasts side-boob. Her torso is in profile. I has to look twice as I thought it was front on and see was missing a mammary. Her, coat? jacket?, opens down the side.

...Hey, I may agree with the post, and am sick of too much cheesecake in serious action books, but I'm still a straight guy, so, boobs! :)

Date: 2010-07-17 06:51 am (UTC)
demonprawn: (Surfer)
From: [personal profile] demonprawn
I wish I could play devils advocate here. I love Cheesecake art and exploitation films and and all that jazz. But yeah, time and a place you know. If you want a female action book which you can take seriously as a compelling action adventure/ drama with female empowered leads, then the very male fantasy driven stuff ultimately detracts from that. I'm the demographic for this stuff (the art) and it's grinding my gears.

If this was a story about Lesbian, killer nuns or some such, gratuitous nudity and sexy times would be ace. Empowerment through expolitation ya know. but it ain't. we're ment to feel the tension and drama of these women being hunted and kidnapped and endangered, But they are being represented by porn star like blow up dolls.

So yeah put Cliff Chiang on art (he's aceing the covers) or how about Bruce Timm for a bit. That shit would sell like hot cakes and I'd all love it.

Date: 2010-07-17 07:11 am (UTC)
a_clericalerror: (Default)
From: [personal profile] a_clericalerror
While not as painful or as constantly sexual as Benes' work, aren't Chiang and Timm just as bad at doing same face/body with women?

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] a_clericalerror - Date: 2010-07-17 07:17 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] stolisomancer.insanejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-17 07:32 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] jlbarnett - Date: 2010-07-17 12:55 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] stolisomancer.insanejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-17 06:52 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] halloweenjack - Date: 2010-07-17 09:59 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] nervousystem.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-18 02:43 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] demonprawn - Date: 2010-07-17 07:44 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] nezchan - Date: 2010-07-17 01:53 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] a_clericalerror - Date: 2010-07-17 07:54 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] demonprawn - Date: 2010-07-17 07:59 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] halloweenjack - Date: 2010-07-17 10:01 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cleome45 - Date: 2010-07-18 01:54 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] demonprawn - Date: 2010-07-17 07:40 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cmdr_zoom - Date: 2010-07-17 03:17 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-07-17 07:02 am (UTC)
a_clericalerror: (Default)
From: [personal profile] a_clericalerror
I've seen that post about the difficulty of drawing women's faces before and find it to be complete nonsense. Women's faces come in just as much variety as men's, sans the addition of facial hair, and anyone who draws them all the same all the time is just not a very good artist.

And, to clarify, I'm not talking just about realism or anything similar either, even the simplified styles of cartoon or some comic work should be able to pull this off. Just look at, because I've been watching it lately it's the first example that comes to mind, Avatar: The Last Airbender. Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee all have distinct facial features that you wouldn't end up confusing with one another despite not being particularly detailed and even if you removed their equally distinct hairstyles.

That said, this is a good post and you should feel good about it, even though it is unfortunate that this post even need to exist.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] a_clericalerror - Date: 2010-07-17 07:39 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] nezchan - Date: 2010-07-17 02:00 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] meatwhichdreams - Date: 2010-07-17 07:22 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cleome45 - Date: 2010-07-18 01:56 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] nervousystem.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-18 02:49 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cleome45 - Date: 2010-07-18 07:05 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] sandoz_iscariot - Date: 2010-07-17 09:57 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] nezchan - Date: 2010-07-17 09:59 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk - Date: 2010-07-18 04:41 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] meatwhichdreams - Date: 2010-07-17 07:45 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] lissa_quon - Date: 2010-07-17 07:41 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 08:13 am (UTC) - Expand

Ok, wording fail on my part - mea culpa

From: [personal profile] lissa_quon - Date: 2010-07-17 08:24 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ok, wording fail on my part - mea culpa

From: [personal profile] arbre_rieur - Date: 2010-07-17 08:43 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ok, wording fail on my part - mea culpa

From: [personal profile] a_clericalerror - Date: 2010-07-17 08:54 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ok, wording fail on my part - mea culpa

From: [personal profile] 20thcenturyvole - Date: 2010-07-17 12:57 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ok, wording fail on my part - mea culpa

From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk - Date: 2010-07-18 04:44 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] meatwhichdreams - Date: 2010-07-17 07:25 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-07-17 07:12 am (UTC)
suzene: (Default)
From: [personal profile] suzene
Cool essay. Poster approves +10.

I guess I can see why the scene would be included -- between the objectification of the ladies trying to save his ass and keeping it as impersonal as possible, even in a fantasy (all it needs is a "I told you to keep the mask on" to go with the "Mr. Cobblepot" to make it completely nasty), it seems like we're getting a reminder that The Penguin is a toad to reinforce the White Canary's taunt at the end.

The execution of it is still ick, though, and not in the way that leaves me glaring at the Penguin. Trying to criticize that sort of gratuitous cheesecake while offering more of the exact same thing just doesn't work.

I'd have agreed with the assessment of Benes art back on BoP v.1, when there seemed to be a more playful element to it. Maybe Benes has a different inker these days or his style has just changed, but this isn't making me think "joy" or "freedom". It's just run-of-the-mill T&A.

Date: 2010-07-17 07:14 am (UTC)
suzene: (The Bollywogs Are Coming!)
From: [personal profile] suzene
Also, where the hell did the comm's banner go?

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] darklorelei - Date: 2010-07-17 07:15 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] suzene - Date: 2010-07-17 07:33 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] jaybee3 - Date: 2010-07-17 07:30 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] korvarthefox.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-17 06:13 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] suzene - Date: 2010-07-18 01:06 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk - Date: 2010-07-18 04:48 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] suzene - Date: 2010-07-18 01:12 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-07-17 07:31 am (UTC)
nefrekeptah: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nefrekeptah
If it were Batman and Superman sexily posing and stripping for a daydreaming, fully-clothed (non-spandexed, non-sexualized) Catwoman being creepy, DC would likely never publish it because it’d probably be seen as too demeaning to their favourite superhero guys.

Actually, I wonder about that. As long as it's a fantasy, they might be okay with it - maybe. And I know that Gail Simone would have no problem writing it...

Date: 2010-07-17 02:27 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
I imagine they wouldn's sell it due to percentages

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] combatsoup - Date: 2010-07-18 12:12 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-07-17 07:37 am (UTC)
tsunamiwombat: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tsunamiwombat
...I just love Hawk's reaction though.

"Hey. Don't look at ME man."

Yes, Ed Benes makes cheesecaky porny art. And I like that cheesecakey porney art. Is it realistic? Hell no. Does it break down barriers or dissolve gender inequality? Nope.

But I think you may be reading too much into a -dream- sequence which is meant to illustrate that the Penguin is a skeezball.

Date: 2010-07-17 07:44 am (UTC)
pitseleh: cowboy beep boop. (books = h2g2 + not this again)
From: [personal profile] pitseleh
The context of the story or intention of the writer excuses nothing. If someone, anyone, is offended, it is valid. There is no such thing as 'just a joke' or 'reading too much into it'. Thanks for your time.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] a_clericalerror - Date: 2010-07-17 08:07 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] pitseleh - Date: 2010-07-17 02:59 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] arbre_rieur - Date: 2010-07-17 08:24 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] anewchallenger - Date: 2010-07-17 09:28 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 09:45 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 09:54 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] arbre_rieur - Date: 2010-07-17 10:00 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 10:13 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] arbre_rieur - Date: 2010-07-17 10:41 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 11:03 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] arbre_rieur - Date: 2010-07-17 08:59 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 09:23 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] arbre_rieur - Date: 2010-07-18 09:56 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-18 10:25 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] pitseleh - Date: 2010-07-17 02:57 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] arbre_rieur - Date: 2010-07-17 09:03 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] pitseleh - Date: 2010-07-17 09:13 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] tsunamiwombat - Date: 2010-07-17 11:27 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] pitseleh - Date: 2010-07-17 11:40 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] tsunamiwombat - Date: 2010-07-18 01:40 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] pitseleh - Date: 2010-07-18 02:08 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] tsunamiwombat - Date: 2010-07-18 02:28 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] pitseleh - Date: 2010-07-18 02:49 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [identity profile] wasabi.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-18 07:04 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-18 10:38 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] arbre_rieur - Date: 2010-07-18 10:23 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] pitseleh - Date: 2010-07-18 04:14 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] sistermagpie - Date: 2010-07-18 04:27 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-19 10:50 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] sistermagpie - Date: 2010-07-19 02:04 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-19 02:31 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] sistermagpie - Date: 2010-07-19 02:49 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-19 02:59 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] sistermagpie - Date: 2010-07-19 03:26 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] rordulum - Date: 2010-07-17 08:10 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] pitseleh - Date: 2010-07-17 08:19 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 10:21 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] skalja - Date: 2010-07-18 11:49 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] demonprawn - Date: 2010-07-17 07:55 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 08:23 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] demonprawn - Date: 2010-07-17 08:37 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 08:47 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 09:32 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 10:14 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 10:18 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 10:25 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 11:07 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 11:47 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 11:58 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 12:24 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 12:30 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 12:43 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 12:59 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 10:31 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 10:32 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 11:08 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 10:43 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cmdr_zoom - Date: 2010-07-17 03:24 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] equinox216 - Date: 2010-07-17 05:56 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cmdr_zoom - Date: 2010-07-17 08:12 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cleome45 - Date: 2010-07-18 02:01 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] sandoz_iscariot - Date: 2010-07-17 10:08 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 10:34 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] thebigapricot - Date: 2010-07-18 01:56 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-18 02:02 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 09:59 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] ravenous_raven - Date: 2010-07-17 01:50 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] janegray - Date: 2010-07-18 12:03 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-07-17 07:54 am (UTC)
btravage: (Default)
From: [personal profile] btravage
>>Implying that Suicide Girls isn't just another porn cite.

Date: 2010-07-17 08:03 am (UTC)
a_clericalerror: (pic#369884)
From: [personal profile] a_clericalerror
My thoughts exactly. It's not just another porn site, despite their claims that they don't post sexual photos just pin-ups, but also vaguely racist, sizest("celebrates ALTERNATIVE BEAUTY", like hell they do), and a complete rip-off to their "models"(they have women make a full 'set' of photos and then have it voted for as to whether or not they're going to get paid for it despite having it all up on the site for paid members to see, or at least that's how it was the last time I glanced).

Not even going to touch on my feelings about Simone seeming to praise them.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] halloweenjack - Date: 2010-07-17 10:03 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] a_clericalerror - Date: 2010-07-18 01:58 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] foxhack - Date: 2010-07-18 12:51 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cleome45 - Date: 2010-07-18 05:30 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-07-17 08:36 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex
Personally, I thought the fantasy sequence was kind of funny. "Oh, my little herring, my little sea snail!" "Hey - don't look at ME, man." Hee.
Still, while I see where you're coming from, it seems to me to be an unfortunate fact that, due to all those other examples you mentioned, stuff like this is kind of inevitable. I mean, we DO live in a society that has ridiculous double standards for these sorts of things, and because of that, any comic featuring a number of beautiful women is going to have a sexual element to it. It's inevitable. It's unfortunate, but inevitable. I'll certainly agree that the faces are a bit much, and that yes, all the sexy posing can get a tad exasperating at times, and yes, the butt-floss costumes seem omnipresent, and frankly not even that sexy - hell, I'll agree with pretty much everything you said, but that doesn't change anything. As long as DC interprets 'team of women' as 'booooooooobies', and society backs them up, this is going to happen. There are still plenty of mainstream artists who can draw women who look relatively normal, but they're not going to show up on books like this one - this is a high-profile book, and marketing demands sex, because sex sells.

Date: 2010-07-17 08:47 am (UTC)
a_clericalerror: (pic#369884)
From: [personal profile] a_clericalerror
I'd personally like to punch everyone whoever first uttered 'sex sells', outside the context of the porn industry. Good writing and good art sell too. People need to stop using sexist bullshit to support a weak piece and instead focus on making a product worth buying that doesn't alienate and objectify half the population.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 08:56 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] demonprawn - Date: 2010-07-17 09:02 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] a_clericalerror - Date: 2010-07-17 09:07 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] rdfox - Date: 2010-07-17 04:15 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] jarodrussell - Date: 2010-07-17 04:49 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] minyandu.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-17 05:23 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] recognitions - Date: 2010-07-17 08:35 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] proteus_lives - Date: 2010-07-17 08:46 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] recognitions - Date: 2010-07-17 09:04 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] proteus_lives - Date: 2010-07-18 05:34 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] fifthie - Date: 2010-07-17 10:04 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] thebigapricot - Date: 2010-07-18 01:59 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] simmysim - Date: 2010-07-22 07:19 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] minyandu.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-17 09:06 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 09:17 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] minyandu.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-17 09:25 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 09:35 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] minyandu.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-17 09:58 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 10:23 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] minyandu.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-17 11:52 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 11:58 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] minyandu.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-07-17 12:22 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 12:32 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 09:37 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 10:17 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 10:21 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 10:27 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 10:37 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 11:36 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 11:39 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 11:53 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 12:02 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 12:27 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 12:44 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 10:18 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 10:29 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 11:05 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 11:14 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-17 11:46 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 11:55 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-18 12:47 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] recognitions - Date: 2010-07-18 04:08 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-18 04:51 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-18 09:47 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-18 12:43 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-18 09:59 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-18 12:50 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-18 01:51 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-18 10:18 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-18 10:24 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-18 10:33 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-18 10:48 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-18 11:33 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-19 10:59 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-19 11:44 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-19 12:11 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-19 12:59 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-19 02:17 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-20 12:30 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-20 05:30 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-20 07:12 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-20 08:08 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-20 09:51 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-20 10:30 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-20 11:22 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-20 05:16 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] sistermagpie - Date: 2010-07-20 05:25 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-20 05:29 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-20 11:16 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-21 12:53 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-21 04:32 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-21 10:08 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] sistermagpie - Date: 2010-07-20 03:25 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-20 10:47 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] skalja - Date: 2010-07-19 12:20 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-19 01:51 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] sistermagpie - Date: 2010-07-18 04:09 pm (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-18 04:13 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] arysteia - Date: 2010-07-18 09:30 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-18 10:29 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] arysteia - Date: 2010-07-19 12:58 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-19 01:57 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] arysteia - Date: 2010-07-19 02:11 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-19 02:28 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] arysteia - Date: 2010-07-19 02:41 am (UTC) - Expand

...

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-19 02:49 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] janegray - Date: 2010-07-18 01:16 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-18 10:03 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] janegray - Date: 2010-07-19 10:41 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] psychopathicus_rex - Date: 2010-07-19 11:10 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-07-17 09:01 am (UTC)
blackruzsa: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blackruzsa
I appreciate the post. I'm not taking sides though, but yeah, they should learn to put flaws where flaws show something good about the person.

Date: 2010-07-17 09:47 am (UTC)
yaseen101: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yaseen101
Meanwhile, in this side of the globe actresses are following the trend of wearing no make-up for certain roles and suddenly actresses who used to be buried under 12 tons of make up becomes 10 times sexier. There seem to be more of a 'push' for women to wear make-up and look sexy in the West than for the women I see in the East (though that's just my observation).

I agree what everyone else has brought up here; there is a time and place for everything.IF I want porn, I'll either download it or write/draw it myself. Hell, as a male I don't find this to be really sexy at all. When the artist/writer try too hard to emphasize 'booobs' and 'assss' I do get turned off (sometimes, though), I actually find the Catwoman/ BOP cross over posted here a long while back to be 10x sexier than this since as someone else said, the sexiness came from them kicking ass and taking names not doing strip shows.





Date: 2010-07-17 12:33 pm (UTC)
swatkat: knight - er, morgana - in shining underwear (Default)
From: [personal profile] swatkat
IA, although I'll nitpick and add that little or no make up for SRS BZNS roles has been around for a while now. :)

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] mechanicaljewel - Date: 2010-07-18 12:37 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] yaseen101 - Date: 2010-07-18 12:19 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] yaseen101 - Date: 2010-07-18 12:16 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] swatkat - Date: 2010-07-18 01:18 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] yaseen101 - Date: 2010-07-19 12:39 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] darkblade - Date: 2010-07-17 01:10 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] sistermagpie - Date: 2010-07-17 02:55 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] yaseen101 - Date: 2010-07-18 12:19 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] recognitions - Date: 2010-07-17 08:36 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] yaseen101 - Date: 2010-07-18 12:13 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-07-17 09:49 am (UTC)
shanoa: (gally (cover))
From: [personal profile] shanoa
Well said.

Date: 2010-07-17 11:15 am (UTC)
aulayan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] aulayan
Good rant and I strongly agree. But there is one bit I think you missed.

When you were ranting about women's faces, and how they all look the same because "They must all be beautiful and under a lot of makeup." There's one other argument. There are several male superheros out there who have different faces, even under the 'same face for every woman' artist, they give good-looking men different looks.

If I found ten beautiful women, I can guarantee they'd all have vastly different facial structures. That's what I find most annoying on several artists these days. Because if Ed wasn't doing cheesecake, they'd still have extremely similar faces. No difference on cheekbones, mouth-size, how the lips are shaped, the general shape of the nose, how far apart the eyes are...

*sigh* There's more to a woman's face than hair-colour! We don't need a series about Identical quadruplets who dye their hair so we can tell them apart! (On the other hand, that could be an amusing series with the right writer)

Date: 2010-07-17 11:34 am (UTC)
stubbleupdate: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stubbleupdate
I'll contest the notion that chaps going grey and stubbly is unattractive

Date: 2010-07-17 11:44 am (UTC)
valtyr: (cap tea)
From: [personal profile] valtyr
Yeah, but that's the point - culture helps shape what we find attractive, and there's culturally far more acceptance of the attractiveness of less conventional features on men than on women.

Because we are taught that men have an array of qualities to be judged on, and beauty is only one element of the package, and not even the most important one. But women must be beautiful.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] a_clericalerror - Date: 2010-07-17 11:58 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] valtyr - Date: 2010-07-17 12:59 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] joasakura - Date: 2010-07-17 02:34 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] neuhallidae - Date: 2010-07-17 03:51 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] yaseen101 - Date: 2010-07-18 12:20 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] proteus_lives - Date: 2010-07-17 08:48 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] foxhack - Date: 2010-07-18 12:56 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] proteus_lives - Date: 2010-07-18 05:34 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] foxhack - Date: 2010-07-18 04:30 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk - Date: 2010-07-18 05:07 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-07-17 01:02 pm (UTC)
flidgetjerome: Hark, a Vagrant #328 (Default)
From: [personal profile] flidgetjerome
Back when Black Canary and Green Arrow first hooked up, Dinah was quite a bit older than Ollie. Then she got retroconned into being her own daughter.

It's since worked out pretty well, continuity-wise, but I have always hated the reason it was done, especially given the characters. Like Dinah wouldn't be confident in a relationship with a younger man? Like Ollie would even care that a woman was older than him when she was also beautiful, intelligent and fascinating?

Date: 2010-07-17 02:29 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
I'd be willing to bet the writers never even realized that the original Black Canary would be older than Ollie.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] jarodrussell - Date: 2010-07-17 04:58 pm (UTC) - Expand

Ha, I juuust replied to your post...

Date: 2010-07-17 01:46 pm (UTC)
benicio127: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
This is going to be a little ranty, so let me just set up my soapbox. OK, get comfy. :-)

My significant other, who is not into comics, but will go to the comic book store with me on occasion. He is often the one to comment on women’s bodies in superhero comics, saying they are “so incredibly disproportionate.” He has literally picked up a comic book featuring a woman on the cover, pointed it out to me and said: “Look at this, this is ridiculous.”

Now I am usually the one to shrug it off, saying that a bit of cheesecake is OK with me. He actually seems to be the one more bothered by it. He’s rolled his eyes at Powergirl’s very ample chest and I’ve literally just looked down at my own and said: “Uh, hello? Not exactly sporting bee stings over here.”

The essential point here is: Can an all-female book do well in sales without overly pandering to fanboys? The scene where Penguin dreams the birds are toppling over in line to get to sex him up is like an ultimate heterosexual male fantasy. It’s funny and silly, yes, but it’s kind of like one of those ads to draw in more male readers: read this and you’ll see BOOBS, BOOBS, BOOBS!!

I’ve always thought Sex and the City was such an excellent example of a successful all-female show. The problem is it might be seen as “women love it because of the clothes, the shoes, the accessories and the hot men!” which are definitely good reasons to love the show. I think that’s why I raised my eyebrow a bit when JMS, the new writer on Wonder Woman, said: “And what woman doesn’t love to accessorize!” when talking about Wonder Woman’s new costume. I love to accessorize, but I'm more than just my sweet choices of necklaces, shoes and belts.

However, at the heart of Sex and the City was relationships between four women that were relatable for real women because we have relationships like these with our real friends. That’s why the show did well. I tell my best friends everything, and I mean everything. For example, when I fainted on a train ride in to see my nearest and dearest a couple months back, and was sent to the hospital, the special constable was able to call her and get specific details on just exactly why I had fainted because she knew my condition (I have endometriosis).

The problem with the comics industry is that there are much fewer female fans than male fans and so in order to boost sales, it has to be something fanboys want to read as well.

So how do you balance these aspects — keeping it a respectable book for women and make sure it sells well? Thoughts?

Re: Ha, I juuust replied to your post...

Date: 2010-07-17 02:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] minyandu.livejournal.com
I think it's not like female don't like comics. It's this industry was not intend to sell to them in the very beginning. And this situation has developed for years that it becomes a stereotype. I don't know if they're just not willing to take some risk adn try.
If we look at manga, it's not all satisfying but you can see that things can be different. There're very female oriented manga. There're crappy stories and creators but also very good one like Honey and Clover, and huge success like Sailor Moon that even guy geeks like it. And there are also main streams like Naruto and Bleach and One Piece that are enjoyed by both gender. And even hardcords like Berserk have a lot of female fans. And this doesn't need fifty years actually. If I remember it right, it started in 70s and bloomed in 90s, still go pretty well today.

Re: Ha, I juuust replied to your post...

From: [personal profile] skalja - Date: 2010-07-19 12:55 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ha, I juuust replied to your post...

From: [personal profile] gargoylekitty - Date: 2010-07-19 02:03 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ha, I juuust replied to your post...

From: [personal profile] meatwhichdreams - Date: 2010-07-19 01:01 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ha, I juuust replied to your post...

From: [personal profile] benicio127 - Date: 2010-07-17 05:32 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-07-17 03:04 pm (UTC)
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)
From: [personal profile] sistermagpie
I have to admit, I have the same reaction on looking at BoP. Reading this scene I knew it was a joke, but I couldn't help but notice that in the scene where we saw the "real" birds who weren't part of the porn fantasy they still looked like they were ready for the porn fantasy to start.

It also I guess sort of made me think...see, this would actually be a lot funnier if it *was* Wally, Roy and Dick in this kind of fantasy because with any female character you kind of feel like it might happen any moment anyway, the subtext is that close to the surface. (And to push my own theory, the main hero that I can imagine in that sort of situation is Dick, the one male character who actually does get some of the same treatment as female characters.)

Reading the parts where you were talking about women looking alike, I thought of all the many comments--correct comments--where people complained about artists drawing Dick!Batman as if he were Bruce. Or drew Tim as too hulked out. Bruce, Dick and Tim and Jason are all buff guys with black hair and blue eyes, yet we know how they should look different even in comics where nobody's faces are static. Thisk I think, was also behind the reaction last week to the closeup of Babs' hands with the long nails. It's not that long nails are a bad thing, but it just looked like because we were looking at a close up of her hands, her hands were sexed up with the manicure equivalent of red lipstick.

Date: 2010-07-17 03:46 pm (UTC)
kaileighblue: Icon of a character from Pumpkin Scissors (Default)
From: [personal profile] kaileighblue
Just talking about the art here. As I said on my twitter not long ago. It seems like if you are a girl you're not allowed to like artists like Turner, Campbell, or Benes.

Which kinda makes me feel bad since Turner is one of the reasons I started to get out of animu and draw comic art. It's like every time they are brought up I have to be made to feel ashamed for having liked their style. I still watch a ton of these guys on <a href="http://coltnoble.deviantart.com/>DA.</a> Granted now, being an artist now I can their flaws (especially in "sameface") but I still get joy out of looking at their art and wishing I could draw like them in some way. I'd recommend webcomics. I got into them recently and a great deal of long form webcomics are women created and drawn. And many of them self publish so you can purchase their books as well. (So not a PSA.)

Date: 2010-07-17 03:50 pm (UTC)
kaileighblue: Icon of a character from Pumpkin Scissors (Default)
From: [personal profile] kaileighblue
And I broke my post... Again. When will I learn.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cleome45 - Date: 2010-07-18 02:49 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] shadwing - Date: 2010-07-18 03:12 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-07-17 04:34 pm (UTC)
jarodrussell: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jarodrussell
In b4 "wait until the next issue."

Date: 2010-07-17 04:43 pm (UTC)
jarodrussell: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jarodrussell
It’s a superhero fantasy, and it should be fun, exciting and inspiring, not aggravating and tiring.

Except for the paraplegic, because there's nothing aggravating or tiring about seeing someone who's supposed to be the best researcher in a world of jetpack gorillas on a team with two people who came back from the dead, a time lost pilot, and for a while there one of the New Gods who's too stupid to tinker with the alien nanobots that were fixing her spine.

Welcome to my BOP hell.

Date: 2010-07-17 06:15 pm (UTC)
khamelea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] khamelea
I think that the exact technical term is "jet powered apes."

Date: 2010-07-17 05:05 pm (UTC)
okkult3000: (Default)
From: [personal profile] okkult3000
Somebody should post a link to this on You'll All Be Sorry, since Gail likes Benes and wanted him on the book. Her opinion should be interesting. Also, I want to see a fight.

Date: 2010-07-17 05:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] minyandu.livejournal.com
I'd say, the drawing isn't bad, though, it's the taste that is bothering....

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] shadwing - Date: 2010-07-18 03:14 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-07-17 05:30 pm (UTC)
jeyl: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jeyl
Aw, geez. Gail left Wonder Woman for this?

I'm a straight guy who loves the female form, but even I have to declare that this is just bad. I wouldn't stoop my female characters that low. Batwoman Elegy didn't stoop that low. That dance between Kate and Maggie wearing tuxedoes was 250 times sexier than this trash.

Date: 2010-07-17 05:42 pm (UTC)
benicio127: (Jay rawr)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
I'm a straight guy who loves the female form, but even I have to declare that this is just bad.

You're not the only one. Like I said up a few posts, my s/o (straight dude, too) has actually pointed out over-sexed women in comic books to me and has commented on it being ridiculous. This isn't me prompting him; in fact, I've actually been the one to shrug at times.

I think it's almost also suggesting that all straight men must love big boobs, long legs and a great butt, which is also putting them into cookie cutter moulds. There's lots of guys out there who like small boobs and/or short girls or whatever.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cmdr_zoom - Date: 2010-07-17 08:34 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] jeyl - Date: 2010-07-20 01:43 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-07-17 07:17 pm (UTC)
neo_prodigy: (Default)
From: [personal profile] neo_prodigy
I definitely co-signed on this when I read the post on Tumblr but the images really drives the point home.

Again, thank you for posting this.

Date: 2010-07-18 08:14 pm (UTC)
cleome45: (lightning1)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
Between this and that shudder-inducing Hulk flashback, I considered writing a sarcastic post about how TPTB have kept trying to bring us diversity since time began, but all we ungrateful fans ever do is complain about it.

Then I realized that far too many people wouldn't pick up on the sarcasm. So never mind. :/
Page 1 of 2 << [1] [2] >>

Profile

scans_daily: (Default)
Scans Daily
Founded by girl geeks and members of the slash fandom, [community profile] scans_daily strives to provide an atmosphere which is LGBTQ-friendly, anti-racist, anti-ableist, woman-friendly and otherwise discrimination and harassment free.

Bottom line: If slash, feminism or anti-oppressive practice makes you react negatively, [community profile] scans_daily is probably not for you.

Please read the community ethos and rules before posting or commenting.

September 2014

S M T W T F S
  1 23456
78910111213
14151617181920
21222324252627
282930    

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags