colonel_green: (Default)
colonel_green ([personal profile] colonel_green) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2010-08-27 04:59 pm

Escaping the Grave

Three scans from Black Widow #5 and four from Captain America #609.

After defeating the arc's villain, things in Marjorie Liu's Black Widow story wrap up; included is a bit here that addresses one thing some people wondered about in my post on #4.

Meanwhile, over in Captain America, Baron Zemo continues to be a very naughty boy.  He leaves a message in Bucky's apartment (seemingly written in lipstick on his bathroom mirror) to meet him where Bucky was born, which he interprets as being Fort LeHigh, Virginia, where he met Steve for the first time.

They fight.

Meanwhile, Steve, Sam, and Natasha fight Iron Hand Hauptmann, Zemo's minion through this arc; Hauptmann does pretty well, really, considering he's a nobody fighting three recognizable characters.  Eventually, of course, the heroes close the distance.

That's what you get for calling yourself "Iron Hand", dude.

You'll notice how those two pages look rather different from the preceding one; this issue is a particularly compelling demonstration of how different inking can make an artist's pencils look, because there's one artist (Butch Guice), one colourist (Paul Mounts), and three different inkers on these pages.  The results vary considerably, with some emphasizing the Kirby/Colan-esque elements, others bringing out elements of Guice's more realistic style.

Anyway, Zemo's been Batmaning everybody this entire arc, and defeats Bucky.

Zemo's playing pronoun games and such here; from Brubaker's comments on CBR about how it was good people were speculating about his motives, I'm guessing (based on Hauptmann's above comments) that he dislikes the idea of Bucky escaping his past in the way he's been trying to do, given that Zemo himself has never managed that.  Given how he's avoided killing anyone so far in this story, I'm starting to wonder if this isn't meant to be a Hunter Zolomon-style gambit.

alexanderlucard: (Default)

[personal profile] alexanderlucard 2010-08-27 08:54 pm (UTC)(link)
See, this is my HUGE problem with this arc. Zemo DID escape his past. He became a well respected hero (if not necessarily a trusted one) and even Steve finally admitted he was wrong about Baron and said he was now a hero. Twice. If anything that should have been the ultimate closure of Zemo Jr's past -which was the best "bad guy goes good" arc in the history of Marvel. Brubaker doing this just rubs me worse than anything else Marvel has done in a long time, including OMD. But because it's Brubaker I'm really holding out hope you're right about the Zoloman thing and Zemo is doing one of his "looks like he's evil but surprise, he's actually really good" things out of the second Thunderbolts series.
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2010-08-27 09:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Respected by who?

The respect of the Avengers, at a point in time when the name meant something. And even then, respect really has nothing to do with it, you don't become a hero for the respect, you become a hero because doing the heroic thing is the only thing you can see how to do. Zemo achieved that, and it appears to be being kicked in the nuts for this sake of this story.

He hasn't tried to make the hero community distrust Bucky.

What else do you call leaking information that Bucky was a Soviet assassin for decades? Zemo has set out to make EVERYONE distrust him.
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2010-08-27 10:41 pm (UTC)(link)
IS his backstory as Winter Soldier known to that many people he works with?
terra: (jessica)

[personal profile] terra 2010-08-27 11:11 pm (UTC)(link)
So does Carol. He went into it in a lot of detail, with her, and they aren't particularly close.
skalja: Ultimate Spider-Woman posing like a BAMF (spider-man: jonah+robbie)

[personal profile] skalja 2010-08-28 12:32 am (UTC)(link)
When was that, out of curiosity?
terra: (loki)

[personal profile] terra 2010-08-28 12:35 am (UTC)(link)
Uh, I think it was the World War Hulks one-shot. Something connected with the recent Hulk stuff, though.

Carol also joked with Bucky about internet dating, and then he said he didn't know what that was.
skalja: Ultimate Spider-Woman posing like a BAMF (Default)

[personal profile] skalja 2010-08-28 01:21 am (UTC)(link)
Aha! Thanks.
alexanderlucard: (Default)

[personal profile] alexanderlucard 2010-08-27 09:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Pretty much everyone during Civil War. Reed, Tony, Skrull Hank, Steve and of course Hawkeye/Ronin championed him big time. Hell, Zemo was the one that helped Steve break in to the Negative Zone. He gave then-cap the way in and all the pass codes because he was posing as a double agent since Tony's side thought there was no way BARON ZEMO could actually be siding with Captain America.

In Avengers/Thunderbolts, Zemo was shown to be one of the most popular and trusted heroes in the world and the big theme of that min-series was that Cap (who is my favorite Marvel character btw) was actually being the prejudiced and racist one, not Zemo and Steve's realization that the two had flip-flopped and Captain was hating Zemo II simply because his father was his WII arch-enemy and Bucky's murderer and not giving the son a chance to truly redeem himself. He was looking at Zemo II as his Nazi father and not the man (and hero) he strove to become. It was actually pretty epic.
thehood: (Default)

[personal profile] thehood 2011-07-15 06:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Except Zemo only helped Steve so he as part of his Master plan. You know, where he went agaisnt the Grandmaster to gain reality warping power and take over the world?

Sorry, but Zemo isn't a hero. He's a Zemo.
terra: (chris)

[personal profile] terra 2010-08-27 09:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't know, I think this plays on a lot of themes found in Born Better in which Zemo was certainly not a trusted hero. Just the opposite, really.
shanejayell: (Default)

[personal profile] shanejayell 2010-08-27 09:45 pm (UTC)(link)
It's funny, but at the end of Born Better I thought Zemo had realized his family's 'noble history' was bullshit and was moving on.

Apparently not, sadly. *sigh*

I'm REALLY disappointed with this arch.
terra: (ex machina)

[personal profile] terra 2010-08-27 09:53 pm (UTC)(link)
There's uh, no evidence that Helmut believes his legacy is a noble one. But does it continue to haunt and define him? Oh yes. Even in his rejection of his family, the name Zemo is still a core part of his character. And Born Better was all about that, wasn't it? Blood calling to blood.

I can see how some readers might want his direction to be a different one, and for Born Better to have marked a finality to the whole House of Z thing. But I think, to toss it out, is to throw away a lot of what makes the character interesting. Such is my mileage.
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2010-08-27 10:42 pm (UTC)(link)
And Born Better was all about that, wasn't it? Blood calling to blood.

About it, and about overcoming it too, IIRC.
terra: (jessica)

[personal profile] terra 2010-08-27 10:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Personally, I found the ending ambiguous. Zemo comes back to a massacre of his relatives, the point is made that fighting against one's legacy is allowing yourself to be defined by it all the same. There's kind of brief speculation about whether or not all this can ever be atoned for. Zemo points out that despite everything he still saved the world, that a binary isn't useful, but it's four issues of THE HISTORY OF ZEMO and literal blood sacrifices and then a few panels of what could possibly pass for hope, but only in a "well, we'll have to see" way, without triumph, surrounded by corpses.
thehood: (Default)

[personal profile] thehood 2011-07-15 06:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Respected by Who? Everyone still don't trust Zemo, even the Thunderbolts.

After all, the last time he was on the Thunderbolts he tried to take over the world by gaining godly power. That's why Songbird sent him through a portal.

Helmut is still a Zemo. Zemo's are always bad guys, at best Helmut is an Anti-Villain, but still a villain.