cuntfucius: (USELESS)
[personal profile] cuntfucius posting in [community profile] scans_daily
A friend of mine reminded me of quite an adorable scene in the Titans 3, well, not adorable in the most conventional of senses, but looking it up also confirmed for me what I had remembered reading all along! That Donna had, prior to her death, along with forgetting about most of her relationship with Kyle Rayner, forgotten many details about Terry and Robert.

ANYWAY BEING A WOMAN IN COMICS SUCKS.



So this takes place right after Donna got BRYNE'D.



Basically, the 90s: where my pairings go to die. ANYWAY, LOOK AT KYLE'S ADORABLE LITTLE TEAR DROPS ROLLING DOWN HIS CHEEK FOR DONNA AND ROBBIE. So Donna got the call while visiting Kyle's mother with Kyle in California that her family had gone KERSPLAT off a cliff. Donna's life sucks, I know. Anyway, she initially just needs some time away from Kyle, but then the Dark Angel stuff happens. JOHN BRYNE HAPPENS. And her existence gets erased and she gets rebooted by Wally's memories of her and his perception of her.

So then this dude hits on Donna and Jesse when the two girls are at a bar.



AND DONNA IS ALL VERY VERY NOT HAPPY -- she is having issues because of being reimagined to life by Wally. And has been avoiding him like the plague and even stomping off in a fit whenever she sees him at the Titans tower.



Okay the vixen thing was just cute to me because she is such a dork. But! This does throw in very sad and creepy metacommentary about Donna. We see her in this run staring at a picture of her family and crying. In JLA/Titans and in GL 118, she was made very upset by seeing Kyle being so loving to her. Basically, she had bits and pieces of memories, and knew logically who these people were to her, but she had no context to any of it. She only had the memories of the Titans, mostly. She didn't even remember her favourite photographer. To not remember any intimate moments you have had, even with your ex-husband, to not remember moments with your son or your (now ex) boyfriend, to have bits and pieces of your identity taken away and be reimagined by a guy who crushed on you your entire life is kind of a freaky experience to think about. Wally meant absolutely the best with his intentions, he wanted to bring his friend back. But what she went through is kind of freaky metacommentary in my mind of writers just tossing on to women in comics, and Donna in particular!!! These traits and reimagining her to whoever they want her to be, with little to no regards of her continuity. L O L I AM SURE IT WAS ALL UNINTENTIONAL but it is still hilarious nonetheless.

Date: 2010-09-21 03:09 am (UTC)
perletwo: wonder girl (donna troy)
From: [personal profile] perletwo
So basically, she's post-Rogue Carol Danvers at this point?

Date: 2010-09-21 03:25 am (UTC)
perletwo: wonder girl (donna troy)
From: [personal profile] perletwo
Maybe we need to come up with a new trope for it. Post-Reboot Stress Syndrome?

Hmm. Marcus and Chaos....Both overly muscled, mostly naked, with creepy greasy curly 'dos and bad facial hair, and mondo mother fixations. Have we ever seen them together in the same place at the same time?

Date: 2010-09-21 04:13 am (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
I wondered if they would reuse the "Wally's perception of Donna" idea for HOUSE OF M, and Wonder Man would wonder "Am I really Simon Williams, or Wanda's perception of Simon?"

Date: 2010-09-21 04:41 am (UTC)
book_of_daniel: (Default)
From: [personal profile] book_of_daniel
I never knew who to hate more for this; Byrne himself or the editors who said, "Sure. That sounds like a fine idea."

Date: 2010-09-21 07:14 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I have loathing enough for both

Date: 2010-09-21 12:15 pm (UTC)
joasakura: (Default)
From: [personal profile] joasakura
yeah, the loathing's not a zero-sum game. There's enough to go around.

Date: 2010-09-24 04:42 pm (UTC)
rickperry: (pic#wonderwoman)
From: [personal profile] rickperry
Yeah I remember reading the issue of WW where it all happened being like wtf. I like to think of it as Donna somehow shortly after got all her memories back :P

Date: 2010-09-21 04:48 am (UTC)
star_of_airdrie: (ZHippolyta)
From: [personal profile] star_of_airdrie
It just seems like every time they used to want to kill someone or have some other wacky horrid idea like this one, they'd spin a wheel, but all the pictures on the wheel would be of Donna (well, maybe one or two of Kory). The things they did to her was/is insane.

Date: 2010-09-21 05:58 am (UTC)
neuhallidae: (Default)
From: [personal profile] neuhallidae
Seriously. In the canon of comic characters, she's, like "Our Lady of the Perpetually Cosmos-Screwed".

Date: 2010-09-21 07:27 am (UTC)
philippos42: Miss Tyra funny face (fashion)
From: [personal profile] philippos42
I don't really think Byrne meant it to go this way. Originally, the idea was that Donna's timeline would just be restored--by the Lasso of Truth & some divine power from the Goddess of Truth--with the Wally from her timeline as a sort of anchor, maybe? Then Devin Grayson saw it as a hook for the character.

Date: 2010-09-21 12:57 pm (UTC)
sweettart1823: (fierce)
From: [personal profile] sweettart1823
Aw that scene between Donna and Kyle T_T <333

I always remember thinking, in my own personal fan-wank being all "omg what if Wally purposefully didn't give her, her memories of all her relationships and stuff because HE STILL LOVES HER D:" I know that obviously wasn't what happened. But still it always kind of... made me wonder about them getting Wally to do it. I get it was probably a convenience thing... But I don't know. Just something I thought.

Date: 2010-09-21 11:09 pm (UTC)
philippos42: "Dark Vengeance!" (future)
From: [personal profile] philippos42
Unfortunately, the way Byrne wrote it, he left himself with about three people who could even remember Donna from before. Wally being the only one not in her immediate family. And really, Wally & Diana were both involved in resetting her as part of the timeline. And really, it was just a goofy throwaway scene in a story not meant to be taken so seriously. And this whole thing is moot now wince multiple retcons have voided that particular Donna situation.

Date: 2010-09-22 09:25 am (UTC)
levyrasputin: by me, poor darling they didn't know what they were going into (kleydonna-nicetomeetyou)
From: [personal profile] levyrasputin
As much as I hate what they did to her, I can .. kind of understand why Grayson (and Faerber too? wasn't v2 co-written? I don't remeber...) decided to use this 'recostructed using Wally's memory of her = massive identity crisis' as a subplot for Donna in Titans.
She has been rebooted, and her previous connections outside of the Titans were completely destroyed as she could no longer be a mother, an ex-wife and the girlfriend of her latest mate.
Practically, she has been left with a very few story to be told about her because has been put in a place where the significant things out of her superhero life has been eradicated abruptly from her existence, and irreversibly.
Wich kind of goes back to your point: it is not intentional for sure, but a creepy/interesting metacommentary of what has been done to her character outside of the story.

The sad thing is that she is supposed to be restored completely in Titans 25 but still NONE GIVES A SHIT about writing her coherently with her past...!

Date: 2010-09-22 11:27 am (UTC)
levyrasputin: (manhattan)
From: [personal profile] levyrasputin
Honey, just try to think at how lame everybody sound if translated in another language. They always do in our editions and Jesus, everyone but Barbara sounds so lame.

THINK ON JASON AND DILDO HEAD!

Anyway... I have no clue what you are talking about. I'm Amazon-ignorant. But if she's one Au-Donna, she's hot and interesting by default, I'd say.

Date: 2010-09-22 09:11 am (UTC)
levyrasputin: (wallysmile)
From: [personal profile] levyrasputin
LOL, nice theory.... but I don't think it's meant to be so. Wally had a crush on Donna as a kid but it died pretty early. If I have to say one girl he struggle a lot to get over and is not completely gone from his heart not even now that he had the love of his life by his side, then it's Raven.

The funny thing is that after that, as a close friend of both, it is regularly Wally that make hints at Kyle and Donna and how things are going between them after their breakup. The irony of this always get me. X°D

Date: 2010-09-22 11:24 am (UTC)
levyrasputin: (gar-pleeease)
From: [personal profile] levyrasputin
My guts keep telling me that Wally and Linda are something holy and untouchable to me, yet, I can't deny Raven is a big thing in Wally's life and I can see how they'd keep affecting each other and it's .. just right that it would be so, forever and ever. Even though Wally and Raven are compeletly incompatible and would have ended up killing each other metaphorically or not if they'd ever got together LOLOLOL..

And yeah, that was one of the few salvageable parts of Titans v.4.
I also liked the bits of CompetentTeamLeaderCompleteBastardToWomen!Dick and Raven yelling at Gar and how he was so dumb at her issues, but for the rest it was honestly pretty awfull..:/

Date: 2010-09-21 01:30 pm (UTC)
whitesycamore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] whitesycamore
The more I dwell on it, the more Donna's angst that she might be a literal, real-life Mary Sue creeps me out.

I know the other girls are trying to be reassuring, and it's all very sweet, but I can't imagine their input would be much comfort. So she's the super-nice big sister that puts everyone at ease? That's great, but those types of people DO tend to have very compartmentalised lives. They do have aspects of themselves that they keep secret for the most part. Everyone does.

I don't blame her for worrying that she's been watered down or neutered. This might be meta-commentary on women in comics, but it could easily double as meta-commentary on the way some men view women irl. The idea of being brought back as the living incarnation of the fantasies that dudes have projected onto me over the years fills me with creeping existential dread. Can you say "Manic Pixie Dream Girl"? *shudder*

Date: 2010-09-21 02:54 pm (UTC)
recognitions: (Default)
From: [personal profile] recognitions
Well hopefully the Wally stuff has been superseded by Infinite Crisis? That stated that every version of Donna merged into her one self, so presumably any traits Wally's imagination left out were reconstituted at that point.

Date: 2010-09-22 11:23 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Yeah, but that leaves and even bigger and more confusing problem of how many memories does she have? Does she recall every shitty life that Dark Angel put her through and which all ended tragically? Does she remember all the ghastly Nazi shit that Dark Angel herself did (Dark Angel wasn't a person in her own right up until the reveal that she was another Donna, DA was only a demonic entity possessing the Golden Age Paula Von Gunther)

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