starwolf_oakley: (Default)
[personal profile] starwolf_oakley posting in [community profile] scans_daily
To the earlier request by Benicio127, here are some pages to BATMAN #600, written by Ed Brubaker and drawn by Scott McDaniel. It ended the BRUCE WAYNE: MURDERER? storyline and started the BRUCE WAYNE: FUGITIVE storyline. It also (maybe) marks the first time Batman says "There is no Bruce Wayne" out loud.



We've seen the set-up elsewhere. http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/2058266.html

It should be noted that Alfred isn't there because he quit during OFFICER DOWN.
"You are not a child and it is time you ceased acting like one. Which means it is time I stop abetting you." Alfred came back to Wayne Manor during BRUCE WAYNE: FUGITIVE. He knew Bruce wasn't guilty for one reason: "I knew his father."







There's a pretty involved Batman vs. Nightwing fight, which does show that a LOT of the Batcave is built up. Which is kind of a given, with all the cars, plane, boats, rockets, etc. kept in there.





As everyone "stares bug-eyed," (according to Shortpacked) Batman makes his escape.



A narrative box says: "They could never understand. Bruce Wayne was surrounded by pain, but he couldn't react to it."

BRUCE WAYNE: MURDERER would make a good animated movie adaptation, dropping some (but not all) of the more questionable Batdickery aspects. Batman deciding "I don't want to be Bruce Wayne anymore" makes for an interesting story point. An animated movie could really explore the "There is no Bruce Wayne" idea and show why it is true or not true.

Date: 2010-09-28 07:05 am (UTC)
yaseen101: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yaseen101
I'd rather not see another Batman in either animated or live action form for the next few years, thanks.

I think the problem is that from what I've seen, BW:M/F seem to simplify the Batman-Bruce Wayne dynamic. While I subscribe to the Dini/Timm intepretation that the 'real' is the Detective sitting in the Bat-cave snarking with Alfred, I also love the idea that Batman-Bruce Wayne exist as their own yin-yang thing going on.

Batman solves crime by being a Detective, rinign in criminals, corrupt officals, mob bosses, superh villains and terrorists.

Bruce Wayne is a Philanthropist whom after Batman puts their bosses behind bars provides employment, food and shelter to those who were forced to work for them. Also helping out charitable causes.

Date: 2010-09-28 07:20 am (UTC)
big_daddy_d: (Ra's al Ghul)
From: [personal profile] big_daddy_d
I'd rather not see another Batman in either animated or live action form for the next few years, thanks.

I personally wouldn't mind. I just grow tired of constant beginnings, origins, and early years stuff. I prefer if someone takes the risk and just put in stuff from the 90s onward. Introducing characters like Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain to the mainstream folks. Alas, so far the only way to do that is with a straight to dvd movie or have said characters in a guest spot on a current or upcoming DC series.

I think the problem is that from what I've seen, BW:M/F seem to simplify the Batman-Bruce Wayne dynamic. While I subscribe to the Dini/Timm intepretation that the 'real' is the Detective sitting in the Bat-cave snarking with Alfred, I also love the idea that Batman-Bruce Wayne exist as their own yin-yang thing going on.

Those are my thoughts too. Although idk, I, for the most part believe Bruce Wayne is Bruce Wayne. I mean if the Batman personality is not the mask, then who the hell was the kid born and raised as Bruce Wayne? And seriously don't bring the argument saying Bruce died when his parents did. If anything he just became someone full of anger and they thus named his brooding angry side "Batman" while the big womanizing playboy in the media is "Bruce Wayne" and wow I just defeated my own argument...hmmm kinda embarassing.

Anyway, I often believed that Bruce is often a man who rarely has a clue on how to be a dad. Showing emotion for the most part is hard for him and as the years go by, with more loss, being betrayed (mindwipe, which idc what anyone says I was backing Bats and thought he was 100% entitled to being a dick towards those involved because you just don't do that to a friend), he just became that much more closed off but all hope isn't lost. Now after Infinite Crisis, and hopefully The Return of Bruce Wayne, we'll see a Bruce Wayne that's not so closed off..or else he'll end up old..alone..with a dog named Ace.

Anyway, I'm on your bandwagon.

Date: 2010-09-28 07:50 am (UTC)
yaseen101: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yaseen101
IA with the first part of your comment.

It was taking risks, doing something new and a little luck that Batman has gained the media empire he has now. If creators would try to broaden their horizons, take risks and generally try to tell good stories while not adhering to age-old arguments covered in fail sauce ('a main female/poc character? it will never sell! So we must apply it to all female/poc characters as well.', 'B-list character? It will never sell!'.

The second part, now I have a certain weird-ness when it comes to Bruce. He is Bruce Wayne a billionare Philanthropist and a Detective. He believes that Batman is all that he has left with and fighting crime and running charities in Gotham is how he thinks he should spend the rest of his life. See, he is damaged and sometimes cannot relate to people on a certain level (Ty Templeton was great at depicting this).

Batman is just a mask, the work does costume the Man side of things at times but at the end of the day, Batman is just a mask. He created it to scare criminals and the whole 'fallen into the cave thing' was just a previously bad experience that was later triggered when the Bat crashed into his window.

At best I want to see a Batman who is a detective that happens to dress as a giant bat whom despite some of his emotional short comings is still a good man who cares for his family deep down.

Date: 2010-09-28 10:43 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arilou_skiff
Batman is a mask, yes, but so is Bruce Wayne, billionaire playboy.

The "real" Bruce is only there for acouple of momens, I think, in interacting with Alfred or his family.

Date: 2010-09-29 07:48 pm (UTC)
omnipotent: (Default)
From: [personal profile] omnipotent
At best I want to see a Batman who is a detective that happens to dress as a giant bat whom despite some of his emotional short comings is still a good man who cares for his family deep down.

I, too, want to see this. And maybe a little bit less of Bruce-as-a-giant-douchebag. Not completely gone, but just slightly less.

Date: 2010-09-28 01:05 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
often believed that Bruce is often a man who rarely has a clue on how to be a dad.

He's done a good job of it a number of times though, and notice that most of the Dick-related-angst was retconned in after he'd raised Dick to adulthood.

I was watching the bonus material on the "Under the Red Hood" DVD and was irked that they managed to describe his entire maturation and evolution into Nightwing without once mentioning the role the Teen Titans played in it, but did in fact mention the Hudson U stories that DC wiped from the timeline with Jason 2.0's introduction.

Date: 2010-09-28 08:22 pm (UTC)
cloud_wolf: rearshot of robin!damian, batgirl!steph and red robin!tim (rearshot of three youngest robins)
From: [personal profile] cloud_wolf
Yeah, I admit that I sometimes daydream of an animated show with Bruce!Bats (and all the sidekicks from the 90s and early 00s) and then has a season of Dick!Bats with Damian. I think that most people know the basics by now.

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