Who's the most ass-kicking-est DC woman? 10/11 match-up

[thebigapricot]

Today's match-up is between two women who have ability to see all. You can vote here Voting is open until 8pm EST. Remember this is all about attitude and the whole package of kickassery.

In this corner, a woman who sees all and would love to control it too. A woman who uses a computer the way a ninja uses nunchucks. A woman who kicks ass in pure bravado and occasionally with the use of Escrima sticks


Oracle

And in the other corner a woman who has to overcome a devil of a father. A woman who feels the pain of others but holds her emotions in check. A woman who has a Titanic amount of kick assery

Comments

[bluejaybirdie]

Sorry Raven, but I gotta go with Babs. She can pretty much wipe the floor with any and all competion.

(Also, toon!Raven was much more badass than comics!Raven. She had a much less passive attitude and powers. When I was a kid watching the show, I thought she was the coolest thing even (except perhaps besides Robin), but I was kinda disappointed by her character when I read the comics later on).

[leikomgwtfbbq]

Same here. Toon!Raven is probably my favorite character on the show, but comic!Raven is probably my least favorite Titan in the comic. Funny.

But I've always adored Babs! :D

[benicio127]

BABS. ALWAYS.

[taggerung301]

:p
well damn . . . I can't decide

I suppose if I look at it objectively Babs would win, but I really like Raven too . . .

[warpedhand]

No offense meant, but is there really any wonder on this board who would win? The only female character that's adored as much as Babs on these boards is Wonder Woman. Not that she doesn't deserve it, because she does. I'm just saying is all.

[swatkat]

Not even a competition.

[retro_nouveau]

O!

[jeyl]

I'm with Raven. Being the daughter of "something" in a comic universe is a rare feet, and she's the daughter of SATAN!

I'm still banging my head against the wall on why Barbara is still stuck in that gawddang wheel chair. We can give people super powers, we can implement machine parts to replace whole limbs, we can even bring people back from the dead, but we can't even get her to walk?!

[bruinsfan]

I believe Barbara has refused magical and super-science solutions to her paralysis as long as such methods aren't commonly available to the general public.

[icon_uk]

The problem with Raven is that by almost by definition she can't be kickass because every time she loses control of her emotions it's an invitation for Demon-Daddy-Dearest's side of thebloodline to shine through.

She's a vegan pacifist, into meditation and without martial combat skills or powers, it's very tough to be "baddass" with those credentials I'm afraid.

And her new, younger form has been so generally lacking in any sort of an actual personality that I'd say that attempting to define her as a "badass character" is actually wrong on two counts rather than one.

[jarodrussell]

I'm still banging my head against the wall on why Barbara is still stuck in that gawddang wheel chair.

Because when Darkseid sent Batman back in time through the Omega Sanction, one of the eras in which Batman appeared with only half his memories was right after Barbara had been shot. Knowing she would become Oracle because she never walked, Batman implanted a backup personality through hypnotic suggestion into Barbara's mind. This manifested as the dream of the oracle that inspired her to become Oracle as well as prevented her from seeking a cure for her paralysis. The reason Oracle's still in the wheelchair, to the point that Rip Hunter insists that her assault is a fixed moment in time, is all part of Batman's plan to escape from Darkseid's life-trap.

At least that's the menomic sigil I've started using to get over my obsession with the character: it's all part of Batman's plan.

[cloud_wolf]

I actually rather like NTT Raven (no comment on the comic Raven post-cartoon), just as much as cartoon Raven, I just see them as two different persons. I know she gets a bad rep because people totes can't give her any other story line than "becomes evil because of Trigon" and because she's a Titan and god knows those create a lot of ire because of them being in sucky stories (not refuting that those stories are bad, btw).

Anyway, I like NTT Raven. She's shy and people didn't trust her because she was odd, she made mistakes, and she wasn't that pretty for some people I guess (because of the widowpeak, etc) and I thought her and Joey were kind of cute in a woobie kind of way and IDK, I thought her pain was really palpable during and before the Terror of Trigon. I don't really like how people dismiss her because she isn't "badass" or assertive.

I felt like I had to say something. I'm still not going to make a choice, because I don't like picking between characters, but I doubt I need to say why Barbara is cool.

[jeyl]

Bada** is over rated. I'm in it for the character.

[aelflar]

Babs. All. The. Way.

[perletwo]

I dunno. Aside from the fact that I like both characters, what we're looking at here is a classic faceoff of a technology user vs. a magic user. (I've never been very clear on this point, but Raven seems to use magic as a separate adjunct to her inborn powers of the soul-self and the empathy/healing thing - I have issues with the idea, but DC's reiterated it lately in the early issues of Titans and Raven's inclusion in the Black Witch's remade Sorceror's World in Legion of 3 Worlds, so there we are.)

The two 'powersets' are so incompatible I'm not even sure what the terms of a fight between them would be. Could they just, I dunno, play Battleship or something?

[thebigapricot]

This isn't about a fight. It's about over all skills and general attitude though.

[grimmbear]

Babs. There is really no choice here.
Barbara is such a rich character with a strong history.

Raven on the other hand started out strong but she's been badly written for so long and had so many stupid interpretations of her powers that I have no clue who she is or what she can do any more.
It's sad really as she has so much potential and could be a truly wonderful character but they will need to do as much character mending with her as the will need with Cass Cane.

[halialkers]

Written right, comics!Raven *is* extremely bad-ass. If one's father conquered an entire dimension at age 30 and one instead chooses to embrace helping people instead of Rapelootpillage that has a lot of badassery in that she's deliberately seeking to *change* so that she wouldn't follow in the footsteps of a Satan Expy. Thing is that concept is more suited to a maxiseries, perhaps, than an ongoing series and Raven should have been a mentor more than an active field fighter.

Effectively written right she *would* fit Johns's ideas better than the bastardized form of the cartoon Raven he turned her into did.

[frostedone]

TT Go! Raven > Comics Babs >>Comic Raven.

Sine this is just about comics I'd have to vote for Barbara here. She kicks butt.

[big_daddy_d]

Yeaaaaahh mismatch of the century. Both in terms of popularity and physical ability.

[ladytimedramon]

I don't normally participate in these things, but I'd have to say Oracle over Raven.

To me, Raven has almost always seemed to be a character that is totally dependent on other characters for her personality. As a stand-alone character she rarely works. She's bland and blah. Does anyone even think of Raven really doing anything on her own? No. She's Raven of the Titans. Not Raven, character of being the focal point carrying a book on her own. Most of the time when she's away from the Titans, she's still with another Titan in her guest appearance. And when she is "alone", either she's facing Trigon or everyone else is trying to rescue Raven from some other situation. When's the last time it was "Raven to the rescue of X or Y characters?"

If you can hold your own while still in a wheelchair, and not have to be rescued every other story arc, you're the more bada$$ of the two.

[http://www.google.com/profiles/NielJacoby]

Oracle

[psychopathicus_rex]

I'm in the minority here, but I'm going with Raven. I'm not even sure if I'm RIGHT; it's just that that was my reaction when I looked at the two choices. What can I say? I like her.

[superfangirl1]

Barbara gordon as I'm more familiar with the character.

[halloweenjack]

Yeah, sorry, but no. As much as some people hate on Alan Moore, The Killing Joke converted Barbara Gordon from a third-string, also-ran DCU character to a major leaguer whose influence stretches across titles. No freakin' contest.

[thebigapricot]

The Killing Joke converted Barbara Gordon from a third-string, also-ran DCU character to a major leaguer whose influence stretches across titles. No freakin' contest.
No. No it didn't. I'm not going to start in on the literary merits of TKJ but it and Alan Moore did not turn Barbara Gordon into anything except cannon fodder. As far as DC was concerned she was useless to them. They'd retired the character and was focusing on moving Batman to being "The Dark Knight" where characters like "Batgirl" were as superfluous as Batmite.

What converted Barbara Gordon from "the old Batgirl who got shot" to "Oracle" was Kim Yale getting angry at how the character was treated and, with her husband John Ostrander, wrote her into Suicide Squad. They created Oracle.

And as far as Batgirl being a third string character, I think second-string is more accurate if you are looking only at the contemporary use of the character in comics. She was a star of Batman family and was regularly featured in other titles. Outside of comics her impact was much more wide spread simply because of the television show and her being packaged as one of the three characters that DC could market to "girls" (with Supergirl and Wonder Woman) making her between first and second string.

[cuntfucius]

Raven if we are going by NTT Raven. Since we are going by current Raven, I say Babs. It's sad ... NTT Kory, Donna and Raven would wipe the floor with most female characters in DC Today, according to my preferences. But what they are now? Not so much.

I actually LIKE that Raven is passive, a pacifist, and all of that. She's not your typical western version of a "kick ass" girl, but she is certainly kick ass to someone like me who thinks pacifism, restraint and self control are wayyyy cooler and more badass than being "kick ass."

[cloud_wolf]

Besides, if you look at the story in a Doylist way it made sense for Raven to not be so assertive, as the team already had two ladies who could definitely be counted as assertive. Variation is the spice of life. :)