superboyprime: (Default)
superboyprime ([personal profile] superboyprime) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2010-10-22 15:30

The story DC Comics refused to publish

Towards the end of the 20th century, Ellis wrote a John Constantine story called "Shoot," which DC canned. As Ellis explains it: "Years ago, I wrote a brief run on the DC Vertigo horror comic JOHN CONSTANTINE: HELLBLAZER. Brief, because I wrote a horror story therein called SHOOT. SHOOT was about schoolyard slayings in the United States. It was completed before Columbine happened, but scheduled to appear not long after. The regime at DC Comics at the time decided that it could not be released in its completed form. I refused to go along with the changes they wanted to make. They decided not to publish the book at all. I quit."



This week, DC finally published the story, as the lead in VERTIGO RESURRECTED, a 100-page anthology of rare Vertigo stories.









So we're clear, it's one of those stories where the title and credits don't appear until the final page. That's the final page, not the beginning of the story.
deepspaceartist: Ed Robinson of Barnaked Ladies making a funny face behind Tyler Stewart (Default)

[personal profile] deepspaceartist 2010-10-23 01:17 (UTC)(link)
You're right, it's not fair to judge a story without reading all of it. It's just that the very implication of bad parenting equals child just letting themselves get shot angers me beyond reason, and I am a very hard person to anger. And really, 'you didn't raise your child good enough, so they let themselves get shot' seems just as bad as 'your child wasn't happy with life, so they let theselves get shot'. But I will try and find a full version of the story and give it a proper read.
nezchan: Navis at breakfast (Default)

[personal profile] nezchan 2010-10-23 02:08 (UTC)(link)
To be fair even these pages say it's not the bad parenting alone, but the hopelessness of their situation. Underfunded schools, no future, sick society, as well as bad parenting, leading to a somewhat more extreme version of cutting. Accepting harm, since it'll at least either bring oblivion or some sort of feeling into the deadness.
deepspaceartist: Ed Robinson of Barnaked Ladies making a funny face behind Tyler Stewart (Default)

[personal profile] deepspaceartist 2010-10-23 02:54 (UTC)(link)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the comic also say that both the sooter and the victim were ten? I don't know about you, but I wasn't all that philosphical at age ten, and my thoughts about the future consisted of "Spaceships and jetpacks, AWESOME!" And I was around that age when this story was written. (In fact, looking it up, I was ten at the time of Columbine.) I don't think that there's that many ten year old nihlists.

Also, on an art note, this artist seems to be doing some artistic dawson casting here, as I would swaer those kids are at least high schoolers from just the art. That's also some pretty artistic angles from the security camera.
nezchan: Navis at breakfast (Default)

[personal profile] nezchan 2010-10-23 03:03 (UTC)(link)
Oh, the ten year old thing is irredeemably dumb. Which is fine, since it wasn't what I was talking about.
deepspaceartist: Ed Robinson of Barnaked Ladies making a funny face behind Tyler Stewart (Default)

[personal profile] deepspaceartist 2010-10-23 03:14 (UTC)(link)
That's true, and I do get the concept you were talking about. It's just that even if it were 18-year olds, I still wouldn't buy it. I get the mesaage this is trying to get across now, I just think it's complete and utter nonsense.
nezchan: Navis at breakfast (Default)

[personal profile] nezchan 2010-10-23 03:28 (UTC)(link)
It's Ennis, overblown messages are sorta what he does.

Occasionally it's entertaining.
starwolf_oakley: (Default)

[personal profile] starwolf_oakley 2010-10-23 05:47 (UTC)(link)
You mean Ellis (Warren), who is no stranger to overblown messages. Still, this story would make the reader think "too much TV has given these kids high functioning autism, this making them suicidal."

Ennis (Garth) is the one who has overblown messages about how bad organized religion is. Personally, I've wondered if Warner Bros. ever adapted PREACHER, Arseface would be the sole survivor of a school shooting instead of a failed suicide attempt (which somehow lobotomized him).
nezchan: You gotta be pissed (FROWN!!)

[personal profile] nezchan 2010-10-23 14:00 (UTC)(link)
That seems a rather wordy way to say "Hey dude, you had a typo".
starwolf_oakley: (Default)

[personal profile] starwolf_oakley 2010-10-23 21:13 (UTC)(link)
That was a little "wordy" of me. Sorry. Heck, I've mixed up Chuck Dixon and Chuck Austen in my posts.
nezchan: Navis at breakfast (Default)

[personal profile] nezchan 2010-10-23 21:28 (UTC)(link)
I mix up the two names all the time, although at least I keep their attributes right.

Miller and Millar, surprisingly, I can keep straight.
stolisomancer: (Default)

[personal profile] stolisomancer 2010-10-23 03:22 (UTC)(link)
Constantine says that his buddy's son and the kid that shot him were both ten, then puts in the tape called Louisiana. Presumably that's meant to be them on the tape.

Doing a quick look through Wikipedia's page on school shootings, two major incidents immediately before Columbine were perpetrated by a fourteen-year-old, a thirteen-year-old, and an eleven-year-old.

The latter incident, the Westside shooting, got a lot of ink back then because the perpetrators pulled the fire alarm in order to lure their targets into their established kill zone. That's an eleven-year-old kid with a gun, lying in ambush for his classmates and teachers, more than a year before Columbine.

Using your own personal experience as a barometer for a story's veracity is never a good idea.
deepspaceartist: Ed Robinson of Barnaked Ladies making a funny face behind Tyler Stewart (Default)

[personal profile] deepspaceartist 2010-10-23 03:39 (UTC)(link)
I wasn't talking about the shooter so much as the victim. Can you imagine any of the victims at Westside standing still for the shooter, much less encouraging them to fire? Heck, even Constantine states that he's talking about not the shooter but the intended victims as the hopeless nihlistic one who just accept that they're going to die. And they're ten year old kids. Have you ever met a classful of depressed, nihlistic sixth graders?
stolisomancer: (Default)

[personal profile] stolisomancer 2010-10-23 03:58 (UTC)(link)
I've never met a depressed ten-year-old, no. That doesn't mean I don't believe they exist.

The CDC's studies of the period indicate that the suicide rate among ten to fourteen-year-olds in the United States in 1998 was approximately 2.34 per 100,000. In 2000, it was 1.5 per 100,000, or approximately 300 out of a little under twenty million.

It's rare, yes, but the idea of a suicidal ten-year-old who, when looking down the barrel of a classmate's revolver, just doesn't care enough to try to stop him? It isn't that far-fetched an idea.

Also, you know, Constantine's involved.
starwolf_oakley: (Default)

[personal profile] starwolf_oakley 2010-10-23 05:50 (UTC)(link)
Depressed ten-year-olds, I can imagine. So nihilistic/autistic/bored their survival instincts are shut off? Well, this is a HELLBLAZER story.
destroyed: (Default)

[personal profile] destroyed 2010-10-23 07:30 (UTC)(link)
As a teacher, I can tell you - depressed, nihilistic sixth graders TOTALLY exist. They're only guaranteed to retain that spark of childhood up through about age 7 or 8. 9 and up is pretty much fair game for them to start being shitheads by choice.

That's actually a pretty big problem with today's kids - many of them take themselves too seriously due to parental over-grooming. The age of "everyone's a winner!" has a fucked up a generation or two, BIG TIME.
stig: "It Was A Boojum..." (Default)

[personal profile] stig 2010-11-13 21:58 (UTC)(link)
And of course, it's still fucking them up because there's so many ways to simulate being a 'winner' in modern culture - the internet has just poured salt onto the wound.
stolisomancer: (Default)

[personal profile] stolisomancer 2010-10-23 03:28 (UTC)(link)
It's not "you didn't raise your children well enough."

It's "you let the television raise your children for you, which has turned them into hollow little creatures without hope or empathy."

The former implies that an effort was made and proved insufficient. The latter implies a complete lack of effort and involvement. I was a teenager in the '90s; I knew a whole fucking lot of kids raised by television or babysitters, whose parents were a dim and distant presence in their lives. To paraphrase Pump Up the Volume, the amazing thing isn't that school shootings happen; it's that they aren't daily events.

The full version of the story can be found with a Google for "hellblazer shoot." Like I said, it's been making the rounds for a while.