mad: Batsanta and Superman (Batsanta and Superman)KILLJOY CANUCK ([personal profile] mad) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily,
@ 2010-10-29 02:40 pm UTC
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Entry tags:medium: webcomic, trigger warning: misogyny/sexism
So, recently Kate Beaton made some comments on Twitter about how sometimes guys that like her work will respond with comments she finds creepy/uncomfortable/offensive.

Gabby's Playhouse then did a webcomic entitled "How Every Single Discussion About Sexism and Woman-Type Stuff on the Internet (and real life) Has Ever Happened And Ever Will Happen, Always, Forever, Until the Earth Finally Falls Into The Sun. (Or until the patriarchy is finally dismantled.)"



Comic by Gabbysplayhouse.com
[Source.]

I don't quite get that last panel, but the rest of it is kinda recognizable.



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valtyr: (Cap plays chess)


[personal profile] valtyr
2010-10-29 07:22 pm UTC (link)
I like this in and of itself is sexist by catagorizing all men on the same boat of being insensitive dicks.

Where in the comic does it say 'the insensitive dicks depicted here represent all men'?

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[personal profile] laddical
2010-10-29 07:26 pm UTC (link)
The sweeping generalization that this is how every conversation on sexism ever goes and the blank faces filled only with gender symbols while dividing the two factions along strictly gender lines goes a long way to giving that impression.

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nezchan: From Sita Sings the Blues (women's issues)


[personal profile] nezchan
2010-10-29 07:28 pm UTC (link)
This, for some strange reason, reminds me of how every public discussion of women's issues ends up with someone, without a trace of irony, bemoaning, "But...the poor men!"

Just sayin'.

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[personal profile] laddical
2010-10-29 07:41 pm UTC (link)
Huh. I... I don't see any self-pity or gender-pity in my statement. Merely a response to the question of why someone might interpret this comic as saying all men are insensitive dicks. In this comic, all women are right and all men are wrong; there is no cross-over wherein some women support the male blogger and some men support the female artist. Where there is no specificity, only generalization, it's not hard to get the idea that "the insensitive dicks depicted here represent all men."

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halialkers: (A drama queen thou art)


[personal profile] halialkers
2010-10-29 07:44 pm UTC (link)
Look at it again. It's referring to a person that the writer of the post doesn't know from Adam saying "that comment's worth fucking you for". She objects, rightly. A sexist circlejerk ensues and all the sexists rally to support each other. It's not referring to the people who would not say such a thing, but the people who rally to defend the ones who do, of which that's something a bit too common in our society as it is.

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[personal profile] laddical
2010-10-29 07:46 pm UTC (link)
And I believe you are correct. But the risk associated with art like this is that some people will focus on something and take away something that wasn't the author's intent, and I was trying to explain why someone might read it that way.

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(no subject) - [personal profile] halialkers, 2010-10-29 07:51 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] laddical, 2010-10-29 07:55 pm UTC (Expand)
D'oh: - [personal profile] halialkers, 2010-10-29 07:59 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] stig, 2010-10-31 02:02 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] mad, 2010-10-31 02:09 pm UTC (Expand)
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airawyn: (Robin 4/Stephanie)


[personal profile] airawyn
2010-10-29 07:29 pm UTC (link)
Wow, you guys are doing a fabulous job of convincing me that not all men are sexist dicks.

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falseaesop: (pic#430654)


[personal profile] falseaesop
2010-10-29 07:45 pm UTC (link)
Sorry, I felt insulted by this. Particularly the panel where women and only women are giving logical fact based arguements and the man is ignoring them all, followed by all men following a I AM SPARTICUS call to ignorance.

The thing about this comics is you could switch the sexes in the arguement being presented in his comic wihtout a whole lot of change (dick statue not withstanding).

Take it from a guy who has been stalked by a woman (restraining orders creepy following around, looking through my windows at 3am, actual fucking stalker) women can be just as creepy as degenerate men on the internet.

So lets reverse the rolls. Lets say guy tries to disuade a creepy fangirl, the fangirl takes offense and blog posts about how the guy was being sexist. Guy tries to explain how he making a statement about her, not her gender, girl ignores all logical argument and starts screaming about feminism, other women flock to her cause. Guy feels defeaed by the overwhelming force and is sorry he said anything in the first place.

Would you say that comic is being sexist in its depiction of the sexes?

I don't like this comic, I'm not saying guys can't be creepy dicks, I just think this comic while trying to make a statement about sexism isn't self aware enough to realize that it itself is sexist.

And yes I AM aware that I, in my rambling way can be said to be fufilling the "Let me explain how you are wrong blah blah blah blah" role. I just don't think this comic is being fair.

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airawyn: (Arrow: Ollie doing archery)


[personal profile] airawyn
2010-10-29 07:47 pm UTC (link)
How often a day do you fear for your physical safety because you're in the presence of a strange woman?

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valtyr: (Cap rain)


[personal profile] valtyr
2010-10-29 07:57 pm UTC (link)
followed by all men following a I AM SPARTICUS call to ignorance.

all men

WHERE.

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airawyn: (Arrow: Ollie doing archery)


[personal profile] airawyn
2010-10-29 07:59 pm UTC (link)
You know what, I'm not going to argue with you. If you really give a shit, go here and do some reading: http://www.derailingfordummies.com/

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recognitions: (this is what you get when you mess w/us)


[personal profile] recognitions
2010-10-29 08:39 pm UTC (link)
Dude, you're so far beyond proving the comic author's point for them.

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s0mnambulance: (Lexicon)


[personal profile] s0mnambulance
2010-10-30 12:00 pm UTC (link)
Agreed. I was amused by the webcomic, and think that it brings up some interesting points...but at the same time, I think that it does generalize, and I too would call it sexist. As falseaesop concludes, I do believe that this would receive a very different reaction if the roles were reversed. I think that most of the rebuttals to this point ("Well have you ever been..." or "It's different for women..."), however true, speak nothing to the sexism of the webcomic.

I'm a man and took a couple of feminist literature courses in college. During that time, I met a variety of women who were very serious about gender equality and opposing the patriarchy. Some of these people were rational and understood that sexism can be a two-way street (Kristeva's work on feminism endorses this view somewhat). Others turned EVERYTHING into arguments about the patriarchy, called anyone who watched a movie with a nude scene a misogynist, and basically earned eye-rolls from everyone else in the classroom--even their peers.

When I see a defense for this webcomic not being sexist, I'm reminded of the latter category. Again, I enjoyed reading this and believe that the scenario is representative of what women actually experience publishing their art/writing etc. to the Web--but I also believe that it was a bit heavy-handed and, yes, sexist in its generalizations.

When I read old crime novels, I recognize that women are portrayed negatively, and that such portrayals are degrading to women. I recognize this, lament it, and enjoy the book anyway. Same with this webcomic. Fun read, but yeah, it's sexist.

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icon_uk: (Sonny Strait Nightwing)


[personal profile] icon_uk
2010-10-29 08:09 pm UTC (link)
But my dick is sexist... it only reacts to cute guys! :)

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[personal profile] laddical
2010-10-29 08:13 pm UTC (link)
Here. Have a fresh baked internet.

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greenmask: (lollerskates?)


[personal profile] greenmask
2010-10-29 08:16 pm UTC (link)
Also cute-ist. You're a villain.

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airawyn: (Arrow: Ollie doing archery)


[personal profile] airawyn
2010-10-29 08:51 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, but your dick likes tied-up guy Robins. I have no disagreements there.

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(no subject) - [personal profile] icon_uk, 2010-10-29 09:09 pm UTC (Expand)
thebigapricot: (Jeanette)


[personal profile] thebigapricot
2010-10-29 07:36 pm UTC (link)
Boo fucking hoo. It's not about every conversation on sexism. It's specifically about internet conversations go. And um, hello kettle - you're black.

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[personal profile] laddical
2010-10-29 07:44 pm UTC (link)
Pardon me for leaving out an adjective.

Also: this is not my point of view. It is a specific response to a specific question. A devil's advocate, if you will.

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gargoylekitty: (ragekitty)


[personal profile] gargoylekitty
2010-10-29 08:18 pm UTC (link)
The devil doesn't need advocates. Stop.

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angelophile: (Default Angel Pic)


[personal profile] angelophile
2010-10-29 08:55 pm UTC (link)
If you express a view, it will be assumed that is your opinion.

Be sure what you are saying is how you feel. You're judged by what you say, not the intention behind it. No one has the ability to tell whether you mean what you say by reading your words and it will be assumed you do. Otherwise, why say it? "This is an opinion I don't have, but I'm saying it." Wut?

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valtyr: (Cap rain)


[personal profile] valtyr
2010-10-29 07:37 pm UTC (link)
As I said to [personal profile] halialkers below, it doesn't say that the Y chromosome has a monopoly on assholishness. It says that mainstream discussions on sexism tend to involve a lot of loud male assholes telling a lot of women what is and is not sexist. Which is true. Which has just happened.

The fact you've decided the best response to this is to get indignant about how men are being maligned isn't great, really. If you're a man, but not an asshole who likes to tell women that they're wrong about sexism? This comic is not about you.

while dividing the two factions along strictly gender lines

How horrid to suggest that sexism frequently falls out on gender lines. :|



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[personal profile] laddical
2010-10-29 07:42 pm UTC (link)
Where did I get indignant? You asked a question; I responded with why some people might see it that way.

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valtyr: (meow)


[personal profile] valtyr
2010-10-29 07:47 pm UTC (link)
Your initial response to the post? "I like this in and of itself is sexist by catagorizing all men on the same boat of being insensitive dicks." Reads indignant to me. Affronted, if you prefer, I'm not hung up on the word.

The point is, you chose to focus (whether indignantly or in a state of serene calm) on the treatment of men when the comic is talking about how a bunch of assholes just told some women they were all wrong about sexist and what's offensive.

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halialkers: (A drama queen thou art)


[personal profile] halialkers
2010-10-29 07:37 pm UTC (link)
All generalizations are false.

You do realize this is, technically speaking, proving the point that the comic itself made? The comment in reference to it is rather inappropriate and in real life might well lead to drama llamas of a potentially very nasty sort.

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