Gabby's Playhouse: Discussing Sexism on the Internet

[mad]

So, recently Kate Beaton made some comments on Twitter about how sometimes guys that like her work will respond with comments she finds creepy/uncomfortable/offensive.

Gabby's Playhouse then did a webcomic entitled "How Every Single Discussion About Sexism and Woman-Type Stuff on the Internet (and real life) Has Ever Happened And Ever Will Happen, Always, Forever, Until the Earth Finally Falls Into The Sun. (Or until the patriarchy is finally dismantled.)"




[Source.]

I don't quite get that last panel, but the rest of it is kinda recognizable.

Comments

[falseaesop]

Sorry, I felt insulted by this. Particularly the panel where women and only women are giving logical fact based arguements and the man is ignoring them all, followed by all men following a I AM SPARTICUS call to ignorance.

The thing about this comics is you could switch the sexes in the arguement being presented in his comic wihtout a whole lot of change (dick statue not withstanding).

Take it from a guy who has been stalked by a woman (restraining orders creepy following around, looking through my windows at 3am, actual fucking stalker) women can be just as creepy as degenerate men on the internet.

So lets reverse the rolls. Lets say guy tries to disuade a creepy fangirl, the fangirl takes offense and blog posts about how the guy was being sexist. Guy tries to explain how he making a statement about her, not her gender, girl ignores all logical argument and starts screaming about feminism, other women flock to her cause. Guy feels defeaed by the overwhelming force and is sorry he said anything in the first place.

Would you say that comic is being sexist in its depiction of the sexes?

I don't like this comic, I'm not saying guys can't be creepy dicks, I just think this comic while trying to make a statement about sexism isn't self aware enough to realize that it itself is sexist.

And yes I AM aware that I, in my rambling way can be said to be fufilling the "Let me explain how you are wrong blah blah blah blah" role. I just don't think this comic is being fair.

[airawyn]

How often a day do you fear for your physical safety because you're in the presence of a strange woman?

[falseaesop]

*sigh* Alright, you want to talk about fear? I ended up really screwed up because of a relationship alright? I dated a girl, she got very clingy, I broke up with her and she started stalking me. I mean seriously stalking me. Following me around town, looking in my windows at night, calling me all the time even though I made it clear the relationship was over.

I am a big strong man, a foot taller than her, and even though she had military service I have no doubt in a physical confrontation I could have hurt her... but I never touched her, never. I am not a violent person, I walk away from confrontation.... but still stopped going places because I didn't to run into her. Because she'd try to talk, I'd try to leave, she'd start throwing a fit and I was powerless FUCKING POWERLESS to do anything about it. Could I have hit her? Yes, but that'd be wrong so what could I do? Nothing, fucking nothing, nothing but try to sneak around my own life to avoid her. I changed numbers, I fucking moved, but she still kept showing up.

The police were no help, they seemed amused by the whole thing, big strong guy who is worried about this small woman. Years I put up with this shit fucking YEARS. I haven't been in a relationship for six years, even though I've had women ask ME out... because I have trust issues out the fucking wazoo from this shit. I live alone, I avoid the movie theatres because she works at them and I never know which one she's going to be at because even now 8 years later she still fuckign corners me and tells me "She loves me". So yes for the past six years I've been to scared of intamacy to let anyone get close to me, I haven't had sex in six years. The only close friends I have are the ones I had before that relationship because I don't fucking trust people anymore.

So yeah, please tell me about fear.

[airawyn]

Wow, is that information not relevant to this discussion.

[megaspork]

...You asked how often a day he fears for his safety from a strange woman. How is that not relevant? He described in detail how he has done so for 6 whole years, in great detail.
He answered your specific question, being a singular person who you asked this question of. The logic to where it is not relevant at all must be astounding since I explained why in three seconds.

[valtyr]

No it's not. An ex-girlfriend is not a strange woman. Yes, it sounds like a terrifying experience and he has my sympathy, but it has nothing to do with fearing for his physical safety in the presence of strange women.

[greenmask]

You have my sympathy for this situation and I hope that you escape it.

If you'll allow it and are willing to continue this conversation, I'd like to point out a line in your comment that expresses the difference between your experience, and the life experience of the platonic 'woman'.

[christianconnor]

"How often a day...?"

I know that strange men can often be intimidating and situations can be frightening ... but that frequently?

...wow

We really can't ever apply reverse-the-roles for these situations can we?

[greenmask]

Every man we meet could be a rapist.

Including the ones we already know.

[lilpocketninja]

Statistically speaking, especially the ones we know.

[twigcollins]

This is not remotely a reality in my life as a woman.

[airawyn]

This is a fantastic essay about how women see men.

The Gift Of Fear is a really good book on personal safety that addresses the threats women have to deal with. The author says, "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." (He also takes on workplace violence and bomb threats, among other things. I'd recommend it to anyone to read.)

So no, you can't really reverse it. A crudely sexual comment from some guy on the internet can feel like a physical threat to a woman. And I know that many guys are decent (and there's women who are dangerous) but the odds are against you guys.

And that's before you even start talking about GENERAL sexism issues, like workplace inequality and such.

[christianconnor]

Thank you - I've bookmarked both links.

Will read the essay as soon as I stop (a) accidentally cutting my hand on sharp soup tin and (b) setting fire to kitchen towel while trying to mop up spilled soup.

[benicio127]

I honestly wonder about the one in six women have been sexually assaulted statistic. Because I truly think it's much higher than that. The majority of women I know have been sexually assaulted in some way, including myself. And that's not even counting stalking and intimidation that myself and other girlfriends have faced.
I honestly believe that statistic has a lot to do with underreporting (due to shame, stigma, distrust of police, etc.) I could honestly see that statistic being much closer to one in four.

[merseybeatler]

My dad dated a chick who attempted to poison him after he broke up with her for being a creepy stalker. A few months later, after being dumped by my dad's best friend, that same woman gave him a chocolate cake as a 'no hard feelings' gift. They found slivers of sharp metal baked into the cake.

So yeah, women can be scary motherfuckers, too. My dad got over it, but his friend is still kind of paranoid around women.

[big_daddy_d]

....holy shit... Why isn't this woman locked up?

[merseybeatler]

She may well have been in the years since, I don't think anyone I know has had any contact with her for decades. At the time my dad and company were young, poor, and making a living off forging 18th century belt-buckles and leather flyswatters, and probably not living in particularly legal housing.

[valtyr]

followed by all men following a I AM SPARTICUS call to ignorance.

all men

WHERE.

[airawyn]

You know what, I'm not going to argue with you. If you really give a shit, go here and do some reading: http://www.derailingfordummies.com/

[recognitions]

Dude, you're so far beyond proving the comic author's point for them.

[s0mnambulance]

Agreed. I was amused by the webcomic, and think that it brings up some interesting points...but at the same time, I think that it does generalize, and I too would call it sexist. As falseaesop concludes, I do believe that this would receive a very different reaction if the roles were reversed. I think that most of the rebuttals to this point ("Well have you ever been..." or "It's different for women..."), however true, speak nothing to the sexism of the webcomic.

I'm a man and took a couple of feminist literature courses in college. During that time, I met a variety of women who were very serious about gender equality and opposing the patriarchy. Some of these people were rational and understood that sexism can be a two-way street (Kristeva's work on feminism endorses this view somewhat). Others turned EVERYTHING into arguments about the patriarchy, called anyone who watched a movie with a nude scene a misogynist, and basically earned eye-rolls from everyone else in the classroom--even their peers.

When I see a defense for this webcomic not being sexist, I'm reminded of the latter category. Again, I enjoyed reading this and believe that the scenario is representative of what women actually experience publishing their art/writing etc. to the Web--but I also believe that it was a bit heavy-handed and, yes, sexist in its generalizations.

When I read old crime novels, I recognize that women are portrayed negatively, and that such portrayals are degrading to women. I recognize this, lament it, and enjoy the book anyway. Same with this webcomic. Fun read, but yeah, it's sexist.

[kingrockwell]

You are in a feminist community. There is no place for strawfeminist arguments here. Your having taken classes about gender studies in college does not make you an expert on gender, especially over those who have actual lived experience with sexism.

And it isn't yours to decide who's being "rational" about feminism and who's overreacting. Sexism is about an imbalance, where men are privileged over women. It doesn't go both ways. Women do not have the power in society to back up their "prejudice" against men, that is not sexism.

And caricaturing sexist men in a comic about sexism is not itself sexist. It is representing the men who are relevant to this particular example. Any other men are unrelated to the topic. Women are the marginalized group in our society, they are the ones against whom sexism is leveled, so they are the ones relevant in showing who sexism affects.

It should not be this comic's obligation to include a few men backing up the ladies' complaints to make the "not-sexist" men feel good about themselves. If the complaint leveled isn't about something you do (even though you're doing it right now), then don't make it about you.

Pot kettle black.

[https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawlUPWOU5MTM2kD5mMCgPKAZ1sQHQnT39tU]

How the posters above cannot recognise their own utterly sexist attitudes defies belief.

"Every man we meet could be a rapist. Including the ones we already know."

What a delightful statement! If it was reversed to be some demeaning attribute about women, this forum would be up in arms. But labeling all men as potential rapists is just fine?

"And caricaturing sexist men in a comic about sexism is not itself sexist. It is representing the men who are relevant to this particular example. Any other men are unrelated to the topic."

So a crude joke about a blond and a bar stool, or similarly sexist quip, is fine because it's only representing the "relevant women"? Please, you wouldn't accept this justification the other way around.

"Women are the marginalized group in our society, they are the ones against whom sexism is leveled, so they are the ones relevant in showing who sexism affects."
"Sexism is about an imbalance, where men are privileged over women. It doesn't go both ways."

Whilst I'd of course accept that women are far more likely to encounter sexism on a social level, Sexism against men is rife in the legal system:

• - Harman's legally enforced "positive discrimination" provisions under the Equality Act, in addition to existing company quota policies.
• - Countless grants and training schemes available only to women.
• - The long standing maternity v paternity leave gap, at least until April 11.
• - Grossly imbalanced rights relating to children, including child custody and support.

Of course Sexism is alive and well and a significant problem in our society. But the pot-kettle-black male stereotypes propagated here and increasing legal discrimination against men ensure that this is very much a 2 way issue.

A quote from a "Wymen's" forum I came across recently (linked as an example of the difficulty in differentiating between extreme views and satire): "Every time a man has sex with a woman, he is raping her." I'd LOL if this wasn't expressed in absolute sincerity and subsequently applauded by all other commentators ("I hadn't thought of it that way before. But you're absolutely right. It is rape.").

The quotes herein are not "spreading the word of inequality". They're simply anti-male. In what way does that help?

[mad]

Bzuh?

Well, I guess I'd better head right back to the Hive Vagina and tell the Almighty Queen and Leader of Feminism the news! YOU SURE SHOWED ME, OH BRINGER OF UNVERIFIED KNOWLEDGE FROM THE DEPTHS OF THE INTERWEBS!

Seriously, random quotes without source or validity and references to equity programs and problems some men face does not eliminate or diminish the problems that women face because of sexism and misogyny.

I fart in your general direction.