mad: Batsanta and Superman (Batsanta and Superman)
[personal profile] mad posting in [community profile] scans_daily
So, recently Kate Beaton made some comments on Twitter about how sometimes guys that like her work will respond with comments she finds creepy/uncomfortable/offensive.

Gabby's Playhouse then did a webcomic entitled "How Every Single Discussion About Sexism and Woman-Type Stuff on the Internet (and real life) Has Ever Happened And Ever Will Happen, Always, Forever, Until the Earth Finally Falls Into The Sun. (Or until the patriarchy is finally dismantled.)"



Comic by Gabbysplayhouse.com
[Source.]

I don't quite get that last panel, but the rest of it is kinda recognizable.

Date: 2010-10-30 03:24 pm (UTC)
kingrockwell: he's a sexy (Mod Hat)
From: [personal profile] kingrockwell
You are in a feminist community. There is no place for strawfeminist arguments here. Your having taken classes about gender studies in college does not make you an expert on gender, especially over those who have actual lived experience with sexism.

And it isn't yours to decide who's being "rational" about feminism and who's overreacting. Sexism is about an imbalance, where men are privileged over women. It doesn't go both ways. Women do not have the power in society to back up their "prejudice" against men, that is not sexism.

And caricaturing sexist men in a comic about sexism is not itself sexist. It is representing the men who are relevant to this particular example. Any other men are unrelated to the topic. Women are the marginalized group in our society, they are the ones against whom sexism is leveled, so they are the ones relevant in showing who sexism affects.

It should not be this comic's obligation to include a few men backing up the ladies' complaints to make the "not-sexist" men feel good about themselves. If the complaint leveled isn't about something you do (even though you're doing it right now), then don't make it about you.

Pot kettle black.

Date: 2010-11-04 11:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawlUPWOU5MTM2kD5mMCgPKAZ1sQHQnT39tU

How the posters above cannot recognise their own utterly sexist attitudes defies belief.

"Every man we meet could be a rapist. Including the ones we already know."

What a delightful statement! If it was reversed to be some demeaning attribute about women, this forum would be up in arms. But labeling all men as potential rapists is just fine?

"And caricaturing sexist men in a comic about sexism is not itself sexist. It is representing the men who are relevant to this particular example. Any other men are unrelated to the topic."

So a crude joke about a blond and a bar stool, or similarly sexist quip, is fine because it's only representing the "relevant women"? Please, you wouldn't accept this justification the other way around.

"Women are the marginalized group in our society, they are the ones against whom sexism is leveled, so they are the ones relevant in showing who sexism affects."
"Sexism is about an imbalance, where men are privileged over women. It doesn't go both ways."

Whilst I'd of course accept that women are far more likely to encounter sexism on a social level, Sexism against men is rife in the legal system:

  • - Harman's legally enforced "positive discrimination" provisions under the Equality Act, in addition to existing company quota policies.
  • - Countless grants and training schemes available only to women.
  • - The long standing maternity v paternity leave gap, at least until April 11.
  • - Grossly imbalanced rights relating to children, including child custody and support.

Of course Sexism is alive and well and a significant problem in our society. But the pot-kettle-black male stereotypes propagated here and increasing legal discrimination against men ensure that this is very much a 2 way issue.

A quote from a "Wymen's" forum I came across recently (linked as an example of the difficulty in differentiating between extreme views and satire): "Every time a man has sex with a woman, he is raping her." I'd LOL if this wasn't expressed in absolute sincerity and subsequently applauded by all other commentators ("I hadn't thought of it that way before. But you're absolutely right. It is rape.").

The quotes herein are not "spreading the word of inequality". They're simply anti-male. In what way does that help?

Bona fide I'm afraid.

Date: 2010-11-05 12:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawlUPWOU5MTM2kD5mMCgPKAZ1sQHQnT39tU
This was bona fide (http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2008/01/27/carnival-of-radical-feminist-anti-pornography/#comment-83129), I just didn't have the link to hand. Here's the actual quote - watch as the commentators climb over each other to declare how vile the male sex is:


  • Hectate: "That's what sex is: a means to control and subjugate wymmyn. It’s a form of abuse, plain and simple. The worst part is, they were all rapists and didn’t even know it. My heart weeps for the wymmyn those men ended up with. They’re rape victims. All heterosexual wymmyn are."
  • Satsuma: "Yes, I believe that’s true. All heterosexual women are rape victims. I never put this thought into words, but now that I read Hecate’s post, it makes perfect sense to me."
  • Debs: "Wow (again) Hecate’s words make perfect sense to me too. Hecate should get a blog and write about this stuff, I want to read more! I believe that too, “all heterosexual women are rape victims.” It’s so hard to say, but that’s probably because it’s true."
  • Etc ...


That thread is a good example of the group man-bashing that these discussions descend into, as appears to have also happened here. Gabby posts a fairly decent bit of satire and soon a bitter few start spouting lines like "Every man we meet could be a rapist.". Ripe for it's own satirical response, non?

I clearly acknowledged the major obstacles that Sexism creates for women and believe a cultural shift is needed to address this. However, I take exception (and anyone here would in the reverse) to hateful generalisations torward men (without so much as an inkling of irony in the context of a discussion about Sexism!) and the repeated assertion that it's a one-way street - see my points above.

But feel free to post another "Huh d'huh" reply, Miz Mad. Or perhaps -shock- appreciate that this thread leaves something to be desired in terms of overcoming stereotypes.

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