benicio127: (whut)benicio127 ([personal profile] benicio127) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily,
@ 2010-11-03 04:25 pm UTC
Entry tags:char: robin/red hood/jason todd, char: talia al ghul, creator: jeremy haun, creator: judd winick
AKA the final issue of this mini-series and the issue where I was like omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg

[personal profile] cuntfucius, [personal profile] levy and [personal profile] whitesycamore will be giddy about this.




Four pages.









Whoa! WHOA! WHOA!! Hotter than I expected. Ahem! He wakes up and she's gone. She leaves him with a note and another very important gift, which I was so, so, so glad to see in this.



Oh hey, look! Jason uses gmail. Mary Borsellino will be pleased to know about the dagger in this.
Here's her entry from evenrobins.net on Jason's dagger. Quoting from the entry:
Red Hood’s weapon of choice is a dagger with a waved blade. This edge design has been popular in numerous cultures throughout history, with a variety of connotations attached to the distinctive shape.

In simple, practical terms, a waved blade allows for a longer overall edge distance than would be present in a straight dagger of the same length. Waved blades in longer weapons, such as Flamberge swords, have the added advantage of causing the other weapon in a duel to vibrate, thereby making one’s opponent uncomfortable. This would not be true to any noticeable degree in a weapon such as Red Hood’s knife, however.

The origin of Red Hood’s knife within the Batman comics themselves is most likely the story “The Lazarus Pit!” from issue #243 in 1972. One of the original Ra’s Al Ghul stories by the O’Neil/Adams/Giordano team, this issue saw Batman forced to duel against a man who owed debts to both Ra’s and Batman. Both opponents weilded waved daggers.

As Judd Winick, the writer responsible for the entire Red Hood arc, utilised the Al Ghul family as a significant plot element, it seems likely that this classic storyline was one of the key inspirations behind Red Hood’s dagger.

Just as with the history of waved daggers in the real world, however, the element of pure aesthetic interest must be taken into account. Placing a waved dagger in a panel is more visually interesting and suggests a greater degree of ritual — whether the reader is aware of the legacy of the Keris blade or not — than a simple knife can.

Whatever the reasons may be, Red Hood’s dagger has developed iconography of its own, and now casts a shadow of specific meaning forward over any future appearances of such weapons in future Batman stories.



I'm so sad to see this mini-series end.


(Read 456 comments) - (Post a new comment)
(Flat) (Top-level comments only) (Expand All)

pepperspray101: Cass Cain is searching for an answer (cass cain, searching)


[personal profile] pepperspray101
2010-11-04 07:26 am UTC (link)
Elitist has too much of a social ring to it, so maybe not elitist is what I'm thinking (although wasn't there a point where the al Ghuls would refer to Dick by his social background? what was it? Gypsy? It was something that ignored who he was to Bruce and referred to his social status/background)

Anyways, I'm referring more to how she's been treated like some princess in that league of her fathers all her life. It doesn't make sense that she would bother with simple minions/bodyguards, when she could easily aim higher and get better, more powerful men. Sorry, maybe I'm showing the snob in me, but I sure as hell wouldn't bother with someone that's on my payroll. I'd like someone who DOESN'T depend on me for their paycheck.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


whitesycamore: (pic#913785)


[personal profile] whitesycamore
2010-11-04 08:07 am UTC (link)
Sorry, maybe I'm showing the snob in me, but I sure as hell wouldn't bother with someone that's on my payroll.

I think you rather are. Either that or making serious generalisations about the kind of men women should want, and for what reasons. And I think if she'd been treated as a princess all her life, with her body assumed to be a prize given only to the "best" man (by whose criteria? Her father's?) then it would make perfect sense for her to want to unwind with someone who has no stake in that game.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


pepperspray101: Cass Cain is searching for an answer (cass cain, searching)


[personal profile] pepperspray101
2010-11-04 05:21 pm UTC (link)
Regardless of my personal preferences (which is besides the point and I'm not about to defend myself), as sistermagpie pointed out, the al Ghuls have shown elitist behavior in the past, with Damian's elitist atttitude being the most recent example. Perhaps that is why my impression of Talia being like that has been reinforced. Furthermore, as I mentioned to a mod, Talia has in the past appeared very PICKY about who she INTERACTS with, and now I'm supposed to believe she'd "scratch an itch" with some no-name minion. People have also mentioned Bane as being from another world, but in his case, his strength & skill set that rivaled Batman put him in the warrior status that interested her father.

But hey, even so, Talia didn't like him and goes to show that not even that is enough to impress her. I dunno man, I can only suspend my disbelief so far.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


daggerpen: Masked Jason scowling, with Joker defacement overlaid. (jason todd, joker defacement)


[personal profile] daggerpen
2010-11-04 05:25 pm UTC (link)
Didn't Talia sleep with the minion guy when her father had pretty much put her on house arrest, and he was her only real trusted contact?

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


pepperspray101: Seiji Date reading a book (Chilling)


[personal profile] pepperspray101
2010-11-04 07:58 pm UTC (link)
I dunno, what issue was that?

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread)  (Expand)


(no subject) - [personal profile] daggerpen, 2010-11-04 08:06 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] benicio127, 2010-11-04 08:22 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] daggerpen, 2010-11-05 01:06 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] benicio127, 2010-11-05 01:23 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] daggerpen, 2010-11-05 01:27 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] pepperspray101, 2010-11-04 08:55 pm UTC (Expand)
whitesycamore: (pic#913785)


[personal profile] whitesycamore
2010-11-04 05:33 pm UTC (link)
But what if she just finds that "no name minion" sexy? I'm picky about who I interact with too, but my criteria for who I want to *make friends with* and who I'd like to have casual sex with are VASTLY different (for a start, there are far fewer people I'd really like to befriend).

And I wouldn't think of criticising your personal preferences; I don't know what they are, and it's certainly wouldn't be my place to judge if I did.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


pepperspray101: Cass Cain is searching for an answer (cass cain, searching)


[personal profile] pepperspray101
2010-11-05 03:09 am UTC (link)
Thanks! I appreciate that.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent


sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Me)


[personal profile] sistermagpie
2010-11-04 02:27 pm UTC (link)
I'd buy elitist with the social ring. Certainly if Damian is supposed to be her son, he's as elitist as they come. Aren't they also very into bloodlines? I've always bought them as aristocrats with all the snobbery that comes with that. Hasn't Ra's always made a point of what men are worthy of his daughter?

Which doesn't mean Talia couldn't sleep with a minion, I guess. She could consider them people to scratch an itch with and just not a person she would marry. Sort of like the stereotype of the guy having plenty of palace girls to play with that he wouldn't marry. I always thought that was a nice contrast between them and the Bats, where they were into blood and Bruce had this ragtag family that included kids of no family at all.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


pepperspray101: Cass Cain is searching for an answer (cass cain, searching)


[personal profile] pepperspray101
2010-11-04 05:29 pm UTC (link)
I'd buy elitist with the social ring. Certainly if Damian is supposed to be her son, he's as elitist as they come. Aren't they also very into bloodlines? I've always bought them as aristocrats with all the snobbery that comes with that. Hasn't Ra's always made a point of what men are worthy of his daughter?

*nods* pretty much my impression of them too.

Which doesn't mean Talia couldn't sleep with a minion, I guess. She could consider them people to scratch an itch with and just not a person she would marry. Sort of like the stereotype of the guy having plenty of palace girls to play with that he wouldn't marry.

Hmmmm, I dunno. I can sorta see it, but then I can sorta NOT see it? I'll give ya that, she's not looking for marriage. I guess if I had to compare her to anyone, it'd be Queen Elizabeth I, who claimed to be a virgin, but history tells us otherwise, some claiming she had relationships with even her ladies in waiting. So...yeaaah, I can sorta see that. But again, even the folks under Queen Elizabeth were of nobility, so...there's that again. O_o

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent


benicio127: (whut)


[personal profile] benicio127
2010-11-04 02:48 pm UTC (link)
I'd have to think back to the Nightwing issues by Tomasi, but I only ever recall Talia by Morrison calling Dick a circus boy.

Thing is, people on this post have pointed out she's slept with Bane previously. And that's certainly someone who comes from a wholly different "world" from her.

I'm also pretty disturbed by people who are so upset about her sleeping with the "minion" and/or someone on her payroll and the idea that she should be "aiming higher." It really smacks of policing who a woman sleeps with.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


cuntfucius: (my neck my back)


[personal profile] cuntfucius
2010-11-04 03:26 pm UTC (link)
Yeah idk this reminds me of the uncomfortable weird speculation on Diana's sexuality and the stuff that arises from it lolol

I'M SORRY BUT YOU CAN'T KNOW SOMEONE'S PSYCHOLOGY EVEN IRL TO KNOW WHO EXACTLY THEY WOULD SLEEP WITH IN EVERY SITUATION AT EVERY TIME IN THEIR LIFE.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


benicio127: (whut)


[personal profile] benicio127
2010-11-04 03:50 pm UTC (link)
Yes, this, exactly! ^^^^ Thank you!

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent


pepperspray101: Cass Cain is searching for an answer (cass cain, searching)


[personal profile] pepperspray101
2010-11-04 05:58 pm UTC (link)
As sistermagpie pointed out, I'm not the only one who got that elitist vibe from the al Ghuls (Damian being the most recent example).

But the thing with Bane is that he was approved by her father (which inevitably mean SQUAT to her). And while being from a different world, Bane easily fit into the whole "warrior" status that would've made up for lack of "social" status. And I do believe warrior status had to mean something to the al Ghuls. I mean, did Ras approve of Bruce for his daughter cuz he's a Wayne, or cuz he's friggin Batman? Ya know, the intelligent Detective. The al Ghuls are rather archaic in their attitudes, hence my impression of them being super picky about who they mingle with.

Without that impression, I can see that it does sound like policing. But I'm only pointing out previous characteristics of Talia. She and Ras have appeared elistist in someway, acting kinda like royalty. Why are people surprised by this? Furthermore, as the thing with Bane showed, Talia is very picky about who she's with. Even a man of Bane's warrior status wasn't good enough for her, but I'm to believe some no name guy with a pretty face/body is?

Oookay. As far as this book goes, that's it. Hm, that's interesting, so she likes pretty boys is that it? I wish I had seen more signs of her personal preferences...has she ever flirted with Dick before (honest question) or shown any signs of being partial to a pretty face? I can't think of anything, I can only think of the many times she's extolled Bruce's warrior attributes. So to me, it seemed THAT was what mattered the most to her (bruce having a hot body being a pleasant side note...). No shame in her liking a pretty face, but...damn. I dunno, wish I had seen more signs of it.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent


levyrasputin: (gar-pleeease)


[personal profile] levyrasputin
2010-11-04 02:59 pm UTC (link)
Sorry, maybe I'm showing the snob in me, but I sure as hell wouldn't bother with someone that's on my payroll. I'd like someone who DOESN'T depend on me for their paycheck.

yes you are and not making a very good contribution to the discussion since you are not Talia. Or either you are, and that's why you are so vehemently pissed at this issue ...? IDK...
I am also frowing hard at your "better, more powerfull men." but maybe is just the anticlassist in me showing =)

WHATEVER, I can see the Ghul being selective in all of their blood line shit and such but wasn't Ras admiration for the strenght and willpower and abilities of Bruce that made him consider him as a good source of genetic material for his heir? I've always read it as them being more into Bruce's individual value rather than in his money or social status. Ras always call him 'the detective', not 'the billionare'.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Me)


[personal profile] sistermagpie
2010-11-04 03:06 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, but it does seem a little convenient that he is also from a blueblood family. I think the al Ghuls are very much aristocrats who take that into account--otherwise Damian would get it from noplace.

I don't think this means Talia can't sleep with someone who works for her if she chooses, but the al Ghuls have always seemed blatantly old school royalty types to me. I don't think it's insulting to think that's fundamental to their character. Being selective of their blood and shit is classist. It's imo one of the things that have always been different between them and Bruce. It's one of the things that gets played a lot with Damian.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


cuntfucius: (my neck my back)


[personal profile] cuntfucius
2010-11-04 03:25 pm UTC (link)
What I don't understand is since when does being classist (or racist or sexist or having any other type of bigotry) ever mean you can't sexually objectify or use somebody of said marginalized group? It makes absolutely no sense to say "so and so would never sleep with so and so" -- classism uhhhh doesn't work that way. It's like saying somebody can't marry outside of their own race and be racist. I could easily see Talia using somebody like that. Doesn't mean it's right or cool, especially if she's looking down on said person while she's doing it.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Me)


[personal profile] sistermagpie
2010-11-04 03:33 pm UTC (link)
I agree it doesn't. I think it's a pretty common thing--seems pretty common. And it would actually make sense to have sex with someone in your employ if it's just sex, I'd think. There's a level of control there that would be appealing to somebody who had trust issues.

Of course, fans will always have ideas about what a specific character would do and who they would sleep with. But I agree that classism absolutely doesn't work by people on top denying themselves what they want from those below.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread)  (Expand)


(no subject) - [personal profile] benicio127, 2010-11-04 03:53 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] sistermagpie, 2010-11-04 04:10 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] whitesycamore, 2010-11-04 05:02 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] benicio127, 2010-11-04 06:51 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] whitesycamore, 2010-11-04 06:57 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] benicio127, 2010-11-04 07:02 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] pepperspray101, 2010-11-04 08:52 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] shewhohashope, 2010-11-04 11:19 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] pepperspray101, 2010-11-05 01:47 am UTC (Expand)
whitesycamore: (pic#913785)


[personal profile] whitesycamore
2010-11-04 05:18 pm UTC (link)
Thank you!

Seriously, have people never heard of snobby English lords impregnating the maidservants? Or does that example not count because Talia is a woman, and only men are capable of dissociating their values from their libidos (just like only men can dissociate sex from love, supposedly)?

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread)  (Expand)


(no subject) - [personal profile] pepperspray101, 2010-11-04 08:57 pm UTC (Expand)
levyrasputin: (botticelli)


[personal profile] levyrasputin
2010-11-04 04:39 pm UTC (link)
...uhm IDK, honestly.

It's not that you have a lot to speculate about when it comes to the Ghuls and their take on modern classism, because if on one hand all you said is true, it is also true that Ras holds a deep despise of modern capitalistic society and wants to destroy it, that implies destroying also the social structure it produces, and that produced the privileged spotlight Bruce Wayne occupies.
It's quite complicated and contraddictory actually and writing doesn't help that much....also Damian is a very recent thing, introduced by the same Morrison that did the drugged and raped thing and that has already shown to not care much about making Talia explicitly racist and classist.

whatever, this is drifting from the point. I agree with cuntfucius that it doesn't make that much sense to say that one is classist, hence won't sleep with one of lower class, or to judge character's choices and actions as believable or not applying such generic and wide IRL definitions to their supposed beliefs and behaviours, moreover when we are talking about delicate matters like love and sex.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent


daggerpen: Masked Jason scowling, with Joker defacement overlaid. (jason todd, joker defacement)


[personal profile] daggerpen
2010-11-04 04:59 pm UTC (link)
Not to butt in here, but- are we... entirely sure this isn't just another example of something I like to call "Morrison making shit about a character up to further his own little ridiculous plot"? Is there previous canon supporting this interpretation of the al Ghuls?

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Me)


[personal profile] sistermagpie
2010-11-04 10:15 pm UTC (link)
It doesn't contradict anything I remember about them. Isn't Ra's really old? And so Talia too? I've never seen anything to make me think he was leading the way in class equality a hundred years ago in whatever country he was in while also having a lot of traditional ideas about guys worthy of his bloodline etc.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread)  (Expand)


(no subject) - [personal profile] shewhohashope, 2010-11-04 11:25 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] cloud_wolf, 2010-11-05 11:49 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] daggerpen, 2010-11-05 01:17 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] sistermagpie, 2010-11-05 01:36 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] daggerpen, 2010-11-05 01:37 am UTC (Expand)
whitesycamore: (pic#913785)


[personal profile] whitesycamore
2010-11-04 05:07 pm UTC (link)
I am frowning at the "better, more powerful men" line too, but in my case I think that's the dom in me showing. Seriously, not all women need to feel awed by a guy's awesome wealth and power to get their rocks off with him

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


levyrasputin: (rainbowcloud)


[personal profile] levyrasputin
2010-11-04 06:01 pm UTC (link)
that too, but it's more the 'better' associated with 'more powerfull' that make me laugh in a sad way.

Maybe it's just me having a prime minister that just jumps from a scandal to another and defends himself pubblicly saying "better being into women than being gay!" and get horrays from the crowds that way, but I'm more used to the equation 'powerfull man' = 'total asshole'

:1

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread)  (Expand)


(no subject) - [personal profile] whitesycamore, 2010-11-04 06:11 pm UTC (Expand)
OT - [personal profile] levyrasputin, 2010-11-04 06:17 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: OT - [personal profile] whitesycamore, 2010-11-04 06:27 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: OT - [personal profile] levyrasputin, 2010-11-04 06:38 pm UTC (Expand)
pepperspray101: Cass Cain is searching for an answer (cass cain, searching)


[personal profile] pepperspray101
2010-11-05 03:26 am UTC (link)
*pulls eyelid down and sticks tongue out at you* Yeah, way to judge me when you don't know me.

ANYWAYS, on to more RELEVANT things. Sorry for mentioning personal preferences, you're right, it's neither here nor there and I'm not about to defend myself to strangers.

As I mentioned before, perhaps elitist isn't exactly the word I'm looking for, but for the moment it seemed okay, as Sistermagpie pointed out...the Al Ghuls sometimes act like royalty...(not English royalty but more of Middle Eastern Royalty). But that's not the whole picture. Someone brought up Bane, who was approved by her father (which inevitably mean SQUAT to her). And while being from a different world, Bane easily fit into the whole "warrior" status that would've made up for lack of "social" status. Afterall, Ras approved of Bruce, not cuz he's a Wayne, but cuz he's friggin Batman. As you said, he was the intelligent Detective. In this regard, the al Ghuls seemed to me to be rather archaic in their attitudes, hence my impression of them being super picky about who they mingle with.

But like someone else said...its casual sex. Who says even Talia would turn down hot sex with no strings attached to an extra fine hot body when she's stuck in lockdown for who knows how long. Even Queen Elizabeth I was believed to have had sex with both men and women that waited on her. That lady was noo virgin queen. (granted, all the folks she got with were nobility, but whatever...)

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


levyrasputin: (scotty)


[personal profile] levyrasputin
2010-11-05 05:34 am UTC (link)
You made a comment about some of your personal values that I find extremely questionable, and answer accordingly on the specific, not generically 'judged' you as a whole. :|

WHATEVER... I don't think I know how asian royalty is supposed to work, but the warrior argument is a very good one. We do not know much about the man Talia is with right now but maybe he can fall in the same cathegory - not perfect mating material as the detective but worthy enough of having a closer contact with her - or maybe it's just casual sex with someone from a position of subordination that is even more harmless of a whealthy and powerfull lover, because he can't claim any right on her, we actually don't know...
As much as I re-read this, I'm disappointed in how little we are told of what's going on inside of Talia's head.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent



(Read 456 comments) - (Post a new comment)
(Flat) (Top-level comments only) (Expand All)