30 Days of Winter Day 4: My Favoritest Retcon EVAR (yeah right)

[perletwo]

C'mon. You know the one. It scored major points in our Scans Daily Awards last year.







Jason Todd: dye-job victim. Senseless. Pointless. Gratuitous. Thanks, Grant!

1 page from Batman and Robin 5.

Comments

[kd_the_movie]

the entire damn thing sucked. Not that i hated the red hood arc, hell i liked it..its just why'd it have to be Jason...It imo was the nail in the coffin for any future positive character development (or at least tbh the character dev. i wanted to see). Unless one hell of a retcon takes place.....

[minyandu]

I've been thinking, since Morrison said both pre-Crisis and post-Crisis Jason count, the Jason we see here is like a combination, and his memory is not match with others. That would mean something was twisted more than people thinking happened in IC and is still not fixed or stablized. I would like to see it if they want to develop this point...Though I'm not sure this is what DC planning...= =

[icon_uk]

Oh god no, PLEASE spare us more Crisis shit for at LEAST ten years... longer if remotely possible.

[rordulum]

Well personally, I wish they'd never brought him back in the first place. He was far more use dead and a reminder of Bruce's failures than he ever could be alive. Yes, he is still an example of Bruce's failings, but a far less potent one, now he's apparently an anti-hero who occasionally shows the chance that he might be redeemed.

As he is back, I'd rather they sent him down the route of being an out and out villain. The one who shows what Batman could have become if he'd let his anger and hate get the better of him. As anti-heroes in the Batverse go, I much prefer Catwoman or even Eddie Nigma filling the role.

Hopefully, with his murderous antics in the Red Hood story (which somehow still weren't enough to damn him completely) being added to what he's done since, in Battle for the Cowl and Batman & Robin, he's firmly beyond redemption. And he has more reason to hate the Batfamily that anyone. The mentor who lead him down the path that led to his death, the original Robin, who he looked up to but couldn't live up to (in terms of the current canon, not in terms of how he actually was written as Robin), and the Robin that replaced him.

[nezchan]

"He was far more use dead and a reminder of Bruce's failures than he ever could be alive."

He was also excellent fertilizer. But does anyone give a care for Alfred's roses? Perish the thought!

[whitesycamore]

Well personally, I wish they'd never brought him back in the first place. He was far more use dead and a reminder of Bruce's failures than he ever could be alive.

A lot of people say this, but I can't remember Dead-Jason ever being used for anything more interesting than an angst trigger for Bruce - and that guy angsts way too much as it is.

I prefer my characters alive and characterful rather than symbols.

[punishermax]

~The offices of DC. Writers and artists walk the halls. A dark cloud descends upon the collected group, as Grant Morrison moves like a dark cloud of incomprehensibility, nostalgia and insanity. A young writer pops his head up from a cubicle like prairie dog pops her head up~

"E-excuse me Mr. Morrison...."

~Grant stops dead in his tracks. His cloak (he wears a cloak, did I mention? It smells vaguely of incense and old book bindings). The young writer walks over nervously.~

"Sir...I....I just wanted to ask about that scene with Jason Todd? Where he says Bruce made him dye his hair? Why..what did that mean? I mean, it seems like it doesn't make much.."

~The writer looks in horror as Morrison looks over to him. His eyes are filled with rage and nightmarish horror. Grant raises his hand in a gesture that resembles some ancient rite of curse but is stopped when...~

"Grant, for god's sakes stop that. Can we go like two days without you casting some spell on a writer? For fucks sakes, this is why Marvel keeps getting writers away from us."

~Gail Simone stands with hands on her hips. Behind her Kurt Busiek stands.~

"Simone....So. My enemy returns..."

~Gail places her head in her hands~

"For the last time Grant we are not enemies. We're co workers. Can you stop with this shit every time I get up for coffee? Also stop trying to cast spells. Everyone let that shit slide with Moore because, you know, he's Alan Moore. Also, he never tried to resurrect Lord Voldemort into reality. That was...that was weird Casual Friday."

"Also why are you wearing a cloak? You're neither a Linkin Park fan nor a manager at Hot Topic. Therefore you are unqualified to wear a cloak. Also, you going to Chili's for lunch?"

"Ms. Simone, what's going on?!"

"Kid, welcome to DC. The land where men cast spells, Stan Lee hides in our potted plants-"

~flash cut~

"SHIVERING SPIDERS TRUE BELIEVERS! THESE DEMONIC DCERS HAVEN'T WATERED THIS FERN IN FOUR DAYS! YOU WON'T FIND SUCH SPINE TINGLING, HEART STOPPING PLANT NEGLECT OVER AT MARVEL! EXCELSIOR!"

~the weary janitor turns his iPod louder~

~flash cut back~

"God those give me a head ache. Anyway, you should have received a seminar before you started here."

"You mean 'Dealing with How Fucking Insane This Place Is: Holy Shit Why Did We Hire These People'?"

"Yeah. That...labored joke of a title. Anyway. Don't worry about Grant. He's a nice guy, really smart, just..just don't let him touch your book. He has the super power of making whatever he writes utterly fucking insane. A power he stole from James Joyce and from Ovid before him. C'mon kid, let's go to Chili's"

~The group, Morrison slink behind like a shadow walk off to Chili's. As they leave a hole opens up in space time. A bearded man pops out, looks around and creates a plaque out of thin air. It floats above his head and points to him. It announces that Alan Moore has arrived."

"Fucking amateurs."

~He disappears in a cloud of magic, cannibus smoke and Grateful Dead lyrics. In his wake lays a small package. An intern walks by and picks it up.~

"Huh. The next volume of Black Dossier. Sweet."

[sinorhizobium]

LOL Grant Morrison makes a good villain :D

[misterbug]

Stan Lee jokes will never stop making me lol. However, three things:

1) Moore isn't working for DC anymore and wouldn't drop the next vol. of "LoEG: Century" (I presume that's what you mean, Black Dossier was a stand-alone companion piece) anywhere near their offices; it's being published through Top Shelf now.

2) I always thought the Dyed-Hair retcon made the very important point that Jason understands exactly how Bruce feels about brands because he's experienced it - Bruce making him look like the old Robin to make sure that the target audience (criminals and admirers) didn't lose their belief in the immortality of Batman & Robin...just as Bruce's new franchising plan is going to infect the world with Batman's legacy. Really, this arc was a partial set-up for "Batman, Inc."

3) Where in New Genesis did you get the impression that Grant & Gail have an enmity? They mostly just write totally unrelated things. In fact, I think the greatest the two have in common is that they've expressed an interest in writing Wonder Woman and have both written stories featuring Barbara Gordon.

[thehefner]

It was funny until the Family Guy style Stan Lee cutaway. Then it became brilliant. Well done.

[daggerpen]

*snork*

[benihime_o2]

....I just died and came back without a lazarus pit. You have bamboozled me, let me be your Robin. XD

[isawrightless.livejournal.com]

Jason is such a great character. It was very sad for me to read his parts in BftC and B&R. I completely understand that some fans really don't like him and wish he had stayed dead, but I also believe that the way he was portrayed was extremely out of character. And that's always an easy thing to happen with Jason because some writers can't decide if he's a villain or an anti-hero.

The red hair and the zits, in my opinion, were not necessary. And the art didn't help, either. But what killed me was the writing. Morrison is either yes or no and this time it was just a big no for me. The only part that I actually nodded the whole time was when he protected Scarlet because it showed that he still cared, but other than that, I didn't know what I was reading. Twitter and how to make it big kinda books? Long dialogues about how life sucked for him but he managed to beat his nemesis?

No.

I don't know if it's just me but when I read about Jason I expect badassery. I expect a young man, a boy actually, who's been through a lot and feels rejected by his own father. I expect clever comments and good fights. I expect little moments when he proves himself, proves that he's not crazy, that he's just trying to do what's right even if it means doing it the wrong way. Because in the end it's all about love and denial. How he feels betrayed by Bruce, by his mother, by Dick and how intimidated by Tim he really is.

He's not just another crazy villain and it makes me extremely happy to know he's getting good popularity these days. For a while there Judd Winick kept commenting on how much email he was getting because of Jason. There's even a petition going on right now. I really hope we don't get another 'wtf' kinda thing like what happened in Batman and Robin.

[minyandu]

Jason reminds me of a time I was not having a good relationship with my parents. I want to prove that they got something wrong and even I'm not the ideal daughter in their mind I can still live well and proudly be a useful person to the world. And when I started doing so, I was actually distracted from those self-bitterness because the purpose and work took a lot of attention and I was more focusing on solving daily problems.
Jason here, he had a purpose, he was working on it, and he had resources and education that make him capable of good fight more than shooting and punching and showing self-bitterness. Even they decide he should be a villain, I expect a villain better than what we have here now. Even he is doomed to be a villain, I want him to build up his own world, not just trapped in a loop.

[daggerpen]

While I do tend to subscribe to the interpretation that Jason is kind of nuts- so. Very. Much. Agreed.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Doppelganger. Jumped Jason in Countdown when Earth-51!Bruce died. It would make perfect sense.

[baihu]

That's just...creepy.

[aelflar]

Was this...brand perspective Morrison`s way of foreshadowing Batman Inc?

(and Let`s Retcon should now be DC`s official company motto. It`s happened so much I don`t even care anymore. I just roll with it. Except, my Jason will always be Winick`s Red Hood.)

[daggerpen]

I'm thinking so, yes.

Which, shitty characterization done to foreshadow a shitty concept? Yes, Morrison, clearly, your literary talent knows no bounds.

[star_of_airdrie]

I absolutely think that Batman Inc is set up to be the BIG Bruce/Dick schism. Dick is not going to put up with it. Could this be the end of any relationship between Bruce and Dick? Perhaps...

(and therefore go off to Vega and marry Koriand'r in my happy little world)

[espanolbot]

Objection! PreCrisis Jason did have red hair, and Bruce making him dye his hair so that people would think that he was Dick would fit with Morrison's current "Everything is canon!" philosophy regarding Batman.

And Jason's decision to remake the Red Hood persona as a more traditionally superheroic (albeit through a self-conciously 90s antihero way) costume is due to Jason's attempt to first replace Bruce as Batman, and then creating an identity from whole cloth to carry on Bruce's mission without "soiling the Bat".

From his perspective Bruce's death was the response to him holding so hard to his "unrealistic" ideals, but despite that isn't the same as saying those ideals were wrong. From Jason's perspective by the time he becomes SuperRed Hood, those were Bruce's ideals, and now he's gone it's time to move onto another way that he knew from his early days as the Red Hood work.

Namely, a new Epoc of Crimefighting, where rather than hidingin the shadows, heroes would be massively public with their intentions, use public examples of what they'll do to fight crime (the dufflebag of severed heads in Under the Hood to Jason streaming video onto the web more recently) and just a touch more violence than Bruce used before.

This isn't the same as saying that "Bruce's ideals are old fashioned huff duff" and that we should be rooting for Jason. If anything, Jason's attempt to go against the mold of what superheroism/villainy in Gotham IS ends up with just the same repercussions that Dr Hurt and the Black Glove's attempt to bring unGotham supervillainy to the city.

Namely, someone brings the hammer down on you. Hard.

[aelflar]

Somehow people who`ve gotten accustomed to Winick-Hood would not believe that these two versions are the same. I mean, I see your point (and yes it is Morrison`s perspective, although I remember Jason`s Pre-Crisis hair being somewhat strawberry blond..anywhoo) . One just doesn`t see reborn gun-totting Jay becoming like this..it`s not much of a natural evolution.

Reborn Jason seemed pretty set in his ways, dead-determined that was the right way and pretty much well on his way to achieving his goals (with his chosen means - bang!bang! take over the underworld. Control crime as one cannot 'cure' it realistically). There`s not much reason for change. I didn`t even buy him becoming 'Batman' in Battle for the Cowl, because frankly he hated the whole idea of being a costumed crime fighter. He saw no point for theatrics, as he explained himself - to paraphrase, theatrics are good if you want to scare people, but what do you do with those who aren`t afraid? Well, he shot them. So, the direct approach pretty much worked for everyone, why employ theatricality anyway?

As I`ve said before, Jason Todd 'reborn' was all about realism. He didn`t try and send a message (which is why superheores craft alternate personas and use costumes), he was not trying to be a good guy or make a statement, he wasn`t even trying to be a bad guy - he was just trying to be the efficient guy, whatever that made him.

[frostedone]

Is this whole thing about Bruce making Jason dye his hair black like Dick's canon or just a joke? That is all kinds of creepy if it is canon.

[star_of_airdrie]

I thought it was precrisis canon that he had been a ginger.

[alienist]

In Pre-Crisis canon, it as Jason's idea to dye his hair. Post-Crisis, he always had black hair.

[star_of_airdrie]

It's Jason's lamenting over the zits that indicates how much of his mind is now Swiss cheese (no offense Swiss cheese)