scans_daily: Tony Stark learns the difference between a God of Thunder and a mortal man in a metal suit

proteus_lives (

scans_daily,
@ 2010-12-17 04:21 am UTC

Current location:	Outer Dark
Entry tags:	char: iron man/tony stark, char: thor odinson/donald blake, creator: j. michael straczynski, creator: olivier coipel, publisher: marvel comics, title: thor

Tony Stark learns the difference between a God of Thunder and a mortal man in a metal suit

Greetings True Believers!

This is one of my favorite moments from the Straczynski run on Thor. The reaction from Thor when he confronts Tony about the clone that Stark, Reed and Skrull-Pym created during the Civil War.

Thor has just returned to Midgard and placed Asgard in it's new home of Broxton, Oklahoma. He's searching for the lost Asgardians when he encounters Iron Man in New Orleans and shows him a different definition of power.

Thor has discovered Heimdall in New Orleans after the Hurricane. Tony interrupts him and begins to explain (very arrogantly) that the world has changed and he can't place Asgard in the American Heartland with no problems. He tells Thor to place Asgard somewhere else while "You sign on with the good guys again and we get back to work."

He asks Thor for a answer.

The God of Thunder responds.

Tony is probably thinking he took the wrong tone now.

Oh, the arrogance of Tony. I know this is a gift to the fans but it's a inaccurate example of Stark's faults.

"In this time, and in this place, I am no longer holding back."

I forget where but it's said in one book that Thor has never fought a mortal foe with more then one-third of his strength.

Thor threatens to unleash the full power of the storm against the government if Asgard is threatened.

Tony folds and says he'll consider Asgard and its people outside of the jurisdiction of the Registration Act. Thor tells him he may leave.

"My armor's fried. How am I supposed to get back to base?"

Damn.

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	no subject freezer 2010-12-17 10:28 am UTC (link)
	I had no problem with this (which reminds me: Has Thor run into Reed since Civil War?) But they did pile it on with everybody seemingly getting a chance to kick Tony's ass. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 28 comments) (Show 28 comments)

	no subject proteus_lives 2010-12-17 10:45 am UTC (link)
	To my knowledge he hasn't run into Reed and spoke of Clor. Shame, really. Yes, they fanwanked on beating Tony too much but Thor's felt so right. He had an omega-level beef and the power to back it up. Plus JMS and OC were the perfect team for it. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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glprime
2010-12-17 10:50 am UTC (link)

He deserved it. As Thor himself says, "you put all the weaker heroes who we ever called 'friend' and fought beside as Avengers... into a fucking prison. in a place that's so depressing by it's very subatomic nature, people are driven to suicide."

I also can't believe Reed only ever got the beatdown he deserved from Hulk but not from the families of those heroes he imprisoned in "42".

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freezer
2010-12-17 11:01 am UTC (link)

That's my biggest problem with the entire CW fallout: It seemed like Tony got Reed's share of karma as well and no one (including those who pretty much sought out Tony) even thought of telling Reed where to stick it. Hell, isn't that how CW got started: All the blame going to the Warriors with Nitro damn near officially forgotten?

And it didn't come across properly in my original comment, but I also enjoyed the hell out of this (even if they did have to "tweak" Tony's arrogance to make it work.)

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	no subject proteus_lives 2010-12-17 11:06 am UTC (link)
	I had the thought Tony upped his arrogance because he was ashamed and yes, afraid. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 9 comments) (Show 9 comments)

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freezer
2010-12-17 11:15 am UTC (link)

Perhaps, but normally, Tony wouldn't have taken on a super-heavyweight like Thor unless either he thought the odds were stacked in his favor (special suped-up armor and/or backup) or he thought he had no choice. It just seemed like they had Tony let his newfound (political) power go to his head and thinking he could channel that into Making Thor See Reason.

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	no subject proteus_lives 2010-12-17 11:20 am UTC (link)
	Good point. Tony isn't stupid. Maybe he thought Thor didn't have all the facts and he could spin the situation from there. But even then, he should have backed off once Thor became aggressive. But would Thor have let him leave? Thor was uber-pissed about Clor but he also had a point to make about Asgard. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 4 comments) (Show 4 comments)

	no subject freezer 2010-12-17 11:26 am UTC (link)
	I always got the feeling Thor would've setting for the warning and light-show had Tony not thrown the first blow. I could be wrong, though. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 3 comments) (Show 3 comments)

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proteus_lives, 2010-12-17 08:22 pm UTC (Expand)

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fifthie, 2010-12-17 09:54 pm UTC (Expand)

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proteus_lives, 2010-12-17 10:36 pm UTC (Expand)

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psychopathicus_rex
2010-12-18 08:47 am UTC (link)

What I got from it was - well, Tony's a science guy. I don't know whether or not he has any spiritual or religious philosophies, but basically, he's all about science and logic. That's what he believes in, that's what he's based his career around - and despite having fought alongside Thor for all these years and having seen him do all kinds of incredible things, he's never really believed that Thor actually IS the Norse God of Thunder, with all the levels of power that that implies. It doesn't fit with his world view. Therefore, he's thinking 'yeah, this guy's tough, but I've fought the Hulk - I think I can take him.' He's WRONG.

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freezer
2010-12-18 09:00 am UTC (link)

That's the thing: He's fought the Hulk - and even with fancy Hulkbuster armor has come out on the short end every time he's tried to go toe-to-toe. Belief in Thor's deity status or no, he should've known not to try it.

That and, as I've noticed, Tony's not very good at actually fighting. If he can't overpower a foe or outsmart them, he gets his ass handed to him.

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psychopathicus_rex, 2010-12-18 10:00 am UTC (Expand)

	no subject fifthie 2010-12-17 12:12 pm UTC (link)
	It seemed like Tony got Reed's share of karma It's more like Tony got about half of Tony's share of karma and Reed gets none of his own. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject alienist 2010-12-17 02:46 pm UTC (link)
	Seriously. It's like Tony was the only hero who supported registration, when, um, no. He also didn't, you know, pass the bill. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 4 comments) (Show 4 comments)

	no subject digitalraven 2010-12-17 05:48 pm UTC (link)
	Tch, you and your logic. Most of fandom blames Tony. Thus Tony gets jobbed. Retcon? What's that? (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject fifthie 2010-12-17 07:14 pm UTC (link)
	Yes, let's blame fandom for the lack of logic in CW. That's what I call logically identifying responsible parties. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject proteus_lives 2010-12-17 08:22 pm UTC (link)
	But he did pay Titanium Man to attack congress to ensure that the bill was passed. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject jlbarnett 2010-12-17 10:56 pm UTC (link)
	he's the reason it was enforcable though. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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sindra
2010-12-17 05:26 pm UTC (link)

Amen.

To this day I want someone to beat the ever-loving shit out of Reed for his arrogance and selfish blindness in the name of science. The only time I've eve seen him even acknowledge the fact he may have a screw-loose with his morals is that one time he's talking with Valeria. I've seen Tony hash on himself multiple times.

If he can't see it, someone needs to beat it into him until he does. CW being the best example.

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	no subject alienist 2010-12-17 10:08 pm UTC (link)
	This is why Reed bothers me more than Tony. Because Tony knows he fucks up. He knows he has flaws. He's a wee bit hung up on it, in fact. I'd go as far to say the way he sees himself drove his motives for the entire Civil War. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject amaniwolf 2010-12-17 10:56 pm UTC (link)
	Ahh....i agree, but he did get called out on all the evils he did by Doom who told Reed, in the end, he was a bigger villain then Doom himself. Now that was great. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 3 comments) (Show 3 comments)

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sindra
2010-12-17 11:13 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, that's the thing about Doom - he knows 90% of the stuff he does is morally unsound or outright bad. He does it anyway for whatever reason, be it for himself or his country. (he's alot like Vlad Tepes to me in that regard)

Reed's just outright blind to the immoral shit he does because he's so wrapped up in himself he doesn't notice. (another reason why I'm not a huge fan of Sue either, as one person already said.....she doesn't call Reed on most of his shit either)

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	no subject proteus_lives 2010-12-17 11:39 pm UTC (link)
	To Doom the ends justify the means. He firmly believes that he knows what is best for the world and makes no bones about it. He's more honest then Reed in that respect. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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icon_uk
2010-12-18 12:06 am UTC (link)

I always recall the scene with Cloak and Dagger meeting Doom, and Dagger blasts him with her light knives, which will confront anyone with the evil they have committed. Doom is completely unaffected, because he has never, not even for one second, viewed himself as evil. EVERYTHING he has done, good or bad, has been for the only good that makes sense; Doom ruling all.

Compare and contrast with the ruthless Duchess in Pratchett's Wyrd Sisters, who is confronted by a spell which makes her relive every single evil thing she has ever done, and her reaction is more or less "So? Was that supposed to put me off? I'd do it all again.... except slower and more molten lead"

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	no subject kirke_novak 2010-12-17 12:18 pm UTC (link)
	I think people were so focused on blaming Tony for everything, they just forgot about Reed. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject icon_uk 2010-12-17 12:54 pm UTC (link)
	Redd shouldn't have though, and Sue CERTAINLY shouldn't have. and yet.... (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

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shadowpsykie
2010-12-17 03:42 pm UTC (link)

that has always been my problem with sue. I LOVE her, because next to Jean Grey she is the Most powerful character in Marvel (arguably)

in the very least she is the most powerful human, and Jean the most powerful mutant

some one posted on Science!Hero day that Reed knows Sue could leave him, but he would never leave Sue.

The one time she did, during Civil war, she came back almost as if it was a whim. that annoyed me.

If they were going to have her leave (and it was a VERY poigniant scene) her comming back to him was just so... she hardly ever calls him on his shit.even after comming back i think she should have had SOMETHING to say but as far as i know she just came back.

I know she loves him, but she can't love the way he acted during Civil war/ World War Hulk/ illuminati, and she KNEW about all those after the fact. she has had little to nothing to say about all of those things and THAT i think is what keeps me from fully liking her as a character the way i desperatly want to like her!

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