cyberghostface: (Spidey & MJ)
cyberghostface ([personal profile] cyberghostface) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2010-12-17 23:47

Some panels from Amazing Spider-Man #650

I might be posting more later, but until then, here are two panels from the latest issue of ASM. 

I'll just let the fail speak for itself here.





(To clarify, the exchange is from MJ's POV. It's to show stupid she is in comparison to Carlie, who "gets" Peter)

If you wanted an additional slice of Spidey!fail...

hawkmoondirge: (Default)

[personal profile] hawkmoondirge 2010-12-18 05:17 (UTC)(link)
This....this makes me sick.

I thoufght, THOUGHT, this would be an amazing step in Spider-man's new direction. Hobgoblins back, Gargan isgetting pimped into a super scorpion, and I actually like the art.

But no, I get crap like this from Slott of all people, and I loved his Mighty Avengers work. This is disappointing.

As for the whole Carlie thing, my two cents. She has no character. Literally. She is a mary sue, in it's worse form. she's there, perfect and better than mj....but we don't know why. It's poor styory and instead of branching her out with flaws and emotion we get (Insert critic's rantings here) from this (Explicit)
sherkahn: (Default)

[personal profile] sherkahn 2010-12-18 05:23 (UTC)(link)
I skipped over the Carlie stuff. It takes some practice, but if you learn to focus your mind you will see that she is just an empty place holder. AS i read these pages every character has a "voice" I can picture in my head. Except her... nothing that resonates as a person.

Hobgolblin's flying camera had more character with one ping and one page.
hawkmoondirge: (Default)

[personal profile] hawkmoondirge 2010-12-18 05:26 (UTC)(link)
Well it is Phil Urich, who wasn't all that bad (loved him in Spider-girl) Hopefully Robert Kingsly is still on the table.

And to clarify, yes this is from Mj's view point, but it doesn't help to over emphasize this crap. Is she smart, yes but not a genius like Peter. We ALL know this.

BTW the Black Cat thing, not really fail. Actually, I happen to like Black Cat's apperances. Perhaps they (Felicia and Pete) are beuing set up for each other or some bullocks.

Argh, I want my Gargan arc!
hawkmoondirge: (Default)

[personal profile] hawkmoondirge 2010-12-18 05:43 (UTC)(link)
Ugh knowing that, Gargan will be seen as an idiot who eats people still....

(It was the suit, The suit eats people, not gargan)

(no subject)

[personal profile] badficwriter - 2010-12-18 07:57 (UTC) - Expand
nefrekeptah: (Default)

Mary Sue.

[personal profile] nefrekeptah 2010-12-18 05:39 (UTC)(link)
Okay, this is getting annoying.

Carlie is a new character. She has been established as a new love interest for Peter. She doesn't have much else established, mostly because she is still new, although it has been established that she is smart, is still new to the relationship and is still a little awkward around Peter, and is often called away for work.

She is not perfect. Nobody has said that she's "better" then Mary Jane. The story has not warped to revolve around her character (she barely even appeared in the last two issues), Peter has not declared her "The One for him" and he certainly hasn't forgotten about MJ because of her.

It seems to me that the Mary Sue accusations are less about anything Carlie has actually done, and more about the fact that she's a love interest for Peter who's not Mary Jane.
stillanerd: (Default)

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] stillanerd 2010-12-18 05:57 (UTC)(link)
Thanks, Cyber. Saved me the trouble. I'd also add that just the fact that Marvel is having Mary Jane--the former Mrs. Peter Parker no less--act like Carlie's biggest cheerleader for a Peter/Carlie pairing is a clear indication of how desperate Marvel is in the wake of OMD/OMIT.
silverzeo: me in anger mode (RAGE!!!)

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] silverzeo 2010-12-18 06:00 (UTC)(link)
........... curse you Joe.....

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] pervymax 2010-12-19 05:29 (UTC)(link)
+1
stillanerd: (Default)

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] stillanerd 2010-12-18 05:54 (UTC)(link)
Slight correction: Peter said "I can make a joke about Schroedinger's Cat, and she gets it1" Same idea, though.
nefrekeptah: (Default)

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] nefrekeptah 2010-12-18 06:22 (UTC)(link)
Yeah, that all sounds less like Mary Sue reasons and more like "the writers trying too hard to establish Carlie as a new love interest." Even if you could call them a Mary Sue, then obviously the writer's learned his lesson, because we're not getting any of that in Big Time.

And then there's the fact that she's named after the daughter of the architect of the new status quo.

And Brian K. Vaghun named Molly Hayes after his little sister, what's your point?
freezer: (TV Tropes)

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] freezer 2010-12-18 07:34 (UTC)(link)
Yeah, that all sounds less like Mary Sue reasons and more like "the writers trying too hard to establish Carlie as a new love interest."

A Sue by any other name...

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] badficwriter - 2010-12-18 08:07 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] skalja - 2010-12-18 12:22 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] liara_shadowsong - 2010-12-19 02:33 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] skalja - 2010-12-19 02:49 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] nezchan - 2010-12-19 03:16 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] liara_shadowsong - 2010-12-19 06:21 (UTC) - Expand
long_silence: (Default)

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] long_silence 2010-12-18 05:58 (UTC)(link)
New character? She's been around since BND started, that was over 100 issues ago in ASM 545.

She hasn't developed an actual personality in the past 3 years.
pyrotwilight: (Default)

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] pyrotwilight 2010-12-18 06:02 (UTC)(link)
Wow. I forgot about how many issues have come out. Pretty damn "ugh" worthy.
nefrekeptah: (Default)

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] nefrekeptah 2010-12-18 06:58 (UTC)(link)
My mistake. Eecpt, just by looking at what's happened to her on Wiki, looks to me that she does have an established character - an honest cop who'll turn in her own father when he turns out to be a criminal, who always tries to do the right thing no matter how much it costs her.
stillanerd: (Default)

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] stillanerd 2010-12-18 07:15 (UTC)(link)
Yes, that was one of the few times Carlie appeared to get some actual development and did display some genuine toughness and intelligence. Unfortunately, it winds up getting ruined when she meets up with Peter again at his apartment, where she tells Peter she's giving him "one more chance" not to screw up with her. When Peter notes she seems different, she says she went through a Gauntlet (yes, this came out during the Gauntlet story arc, so a little title-dropping there). But when Peter says he knows how she feels, she responds, "No, you don't. When you do it right. . . it makes you stronger, You just have to reach the other side." And remember, she's telling this to Peter Parker, the same guy who has had his parent's die, his uncle murdered, a widowed aunt whom he had to financially take care of all through high school, the same aunt who had undergone numerous heart-attacks and, at one point, thought to have died--TWICE, and who had one girlfriend killed by the father of his best friend, and who he also thought MJ was killed in an airplane explosion. And that's all the stuff that is well known about Peter apart from all the other crap he's had to put up with as Spider-Man. And yet, Carlie is the one who comes off being in the right?

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] nefrekeptah - 2010-12-18 08:22 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] stillanerd - 2010-12-18 09:05 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] skalja - 2010-12-18 12:16 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] stillanerd - 2010-12-18 20:02 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] nefrekeptah - 2010-12-18 20:03 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] stillanerd - 2010-12-18 22:00 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] kagome654 - 2010-12-18 12:47 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] nefrekeptah - 2010-12-18 20:44 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] stillanerd - 2010-12-18 22:03 (UTC) - Expand
big_daddy_d: (Magneto)

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] big_daddy_d 2010-12-18 09:26 (UTC)(link)
She hasn't developed an actual personality in the past 3 years.

Now that just makes it that much sadder.
auggie18: (Default)

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] auggie18 2010-12-18 08:21 (UTC)(link)
"It seems to me that the Mary Sue accusations are less about anything Carlie has actually done, and more about the fact that she's a love interest for Peter who's not Mary Jane."

Um, I haven't been following Spider-man at all for the past few years, but I really haven't gotten an anti-"any new girl for Peter" vibe from this community. People seemed to like when he had a date with Ms Marvel and others seemed pretty pro Spidey and Black Cat.

The main reason I don't like Carlie from what I've seen here is that she's essentially a gender-flipped Peter Parker, if he had never become Spiderman. She even looks a lot like him. It's kinda like, by dating her, he's doing the next best thing to dating himself. (Narcissism FTW?)

New Clone Saga, perhaps?
stillanerd: (Default)

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] stillanerd 2010-12-18 09:11 (UTC)(link)
The main reason I don't like Carlie from what I've seen here is that she's essentially a gender-flipped Peter Parker, if he had never become Spiderman. She even looks a lot like him. It's kinda like, by dating her, he's doing the next best thing to dating himself. (Narcissism FTW?)

It reminds me of an episode of Seinfeld in which Jerry meets a woman named Janeane (played by Janeane Garofalo) who is essentially the female version of himself, and Jerry believes he's found the one ("I've been looking for me all these years!") and they get engaged. However, it isn't long before Jerry begins to find her annoying and he realizes he made a mistake ("I should be looking for someone who is the complete opposite of me!"). Basically it was showing that having someone you have TOO much in common with actually can make for the dullest of relationships. Apparently, Marvel hasn't quite gotten this with Spidey yet.
big_daddy_d: (Punisher)

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] big_daddy_d 2010-12-18 09:47 (UTC)(link)
It seems to me that the Mary Sue accusations are less about anything Carlie has actually done, and more about the fact that she's a love interest for Peter who's not Mary Jane.

For me, that's part of the reason. That's right. I said it. No Pete/MJ seems so unnatural for one, but for me it's the hypocracy of the situation. I happen to remember the point of undoing the marriage being to have a single Peter Parker and thus turning Spider-Man into the Peter Parker Show...which i hate, hate, HATE.

So what do we get? For one an unlikeable Peter Parker whose bum ass was still living with his aunt at 30. 2. Fat guy falling on Spidey on his wedding day. 3. MJ shipping him and Carlie. 4. Carlie Cooper herself along with the fact that she's named after Joe's daughter, and set up as the big love interest.

All in all, it just plain annoys me to be honest. As I often say, the OMD retcon was NOT needed. The point of it was just someone being spiteful and wanting to split up an iconic marriage, put his own daughter in to fulfill a fantasy of Peter being his son-in-law, and also the damn nostalgia factor of the love of the golden age playing into it. We get stories that could've been told with a married Peter, but again, this is no longer Spider-Man, but The Peter Parker Show...

So overall, in my opinion, Carlie Cooper represents a useless change as the book is Spider-Man, not the Peter Parker show. If this was a different continuity entirely..i still might hate her to be honest, but thing is..they had more than enough time to get people to care about her...they failed. There were better ways in which all of it could've been handled. Clearly they didn't pick such options.
cuntfucius: (Default)

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] cuntfucius 2010-12-18 21:47 (UTC)(link)
I hate the word Mary Sue and would never use it to describe Carlie Cooper.

But she's poorly written, the romance is kinda forced and, personally, not my cup of tea. I can pretty much recognize that a lot of it is coming from personal preferences regarding my own. I just plain don't have an interest in romances written with this sort of dynamic, or surrounding circumstances, and I don't have an interest in her character as I feel she serves a very "immaculate conception romance interest" storytelling purpose.
fifthie: tastes the best (Default)

Re: Mary Sue.

[personal profile] fifthie 2010-12-19 19:03 (UTC)(link)
Nobody has said that she's "better" then Mary Jane.

Except for Mary Jane saying that Carly is better than Mary Jane.

mostly because she is still new

She's been around for three years in a comic published 3x monthly.