scans_daily | 30 Days of Winter: Day 29 - Fantasy Comics *Master Post*

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30 Days of Winter: Day 29 - Fantasy Comics Master Post

Hi and welcome to tonight's 30 Days of Winter theme: Fantasy Comics!

My favorite fantasy comic is Elfquest, which holds a special place in my heart for being the first comic I bought in a comic shop. It was also my gateway drug for "serious" comics that went beyond the Betty & Veronica supermarket digests. The story of a tribe of elves known as the Wolfriders, Elfquest features every possible genre and setting, from action and romance to alien forests and deep space.

The creators of Elfquest have put nearly every single EQ comic online for free digital viewing here at their website, which I highly recommend for any fantasy or indie comic fans. The stories from the 90s and 00s are of very mixed quality (and it looks like there will always be some loose ends dangling) but the The Original Quest, Siege at Blue Mountain, and Kings of the Broken Wheel are great.

So,

scans_daily, what are your favorite fantasy comics?

And stick with us for the final day of our 30 Days of Winter event. Tomorrow's theme is Kid-friendly/all ages comics!

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Gotta be Legends from Darkwood the Unicorn Hunters. It's extremely awesome.

Gotta love Elfquest!

I really liked Crossgen's Sojourn too. You can say what you want about Land's porn faces, but his monsters and such were (usually) visually stunning.

Don't have access to my bookshelf right no, so the only one that comes to mind is Jeff Smith's Bone, but I've always been a pretty big fan of that!

Ha! I'd have expected that you'd beat me to listing Suburban Glamour. ;)

I, unfortunately, haven't had the chance to read it yet! Though come to think of it, I guess Phonogram would count, wouldn't it?

First issue's up on the Image website. :)

Yeah, I caught that back when they offered it for the Longbox beta, but still need to get to the rest!

Bone, Once In A Blue Moon, loving the current Dungeons and Dragons series, Leave It To Chance, Four Eyes (historical urban fantasy counts!), Suburban Glamor, the Goblins webcomic, Courtney Crumrin, and Mouse Guard.

Not so fond of Elfquest these days, despite the lovely art and generally sex-positive attitude. I'm not keen on how they've treated their same-sex lovers or the thread of homophobia running through Wendy Pini's last project, and Wendy Pini's "advice" to women looking to get into the comics industry pretty much killed any desire I had to support her past, present, or future projects.

What was her "advice" that gets such a violent reaction?

"…this is the way the industry is — it’s an industry for young guys, and it always will be.

Any woman who wants to survive in this business needs to get over herself, think of herself as one of the guys and get on with it. You can’t bring feminist crap into this. You’ll just get attacked. If you want to be attacked, well, fine. But if you want to work, give in, be one of the guys, respect them, respect yourself and don’t expect them to take care of you emotionally, because they won’t. That’s the advice I’d give to any woman who wants to get into this business now."

Basically, a great, steaming pile of "I got mine".

Sadly, not the first time I heard variations of this mentality and advice. Probably won't be the last.

Yeah, probably not. Still disgusting, though.

Actually, there are parts of that that I agree with. It's probably a good thing for any comics creator, man or woman, to at least try and get along with the others in the industry, and not make too much of a target of yourself until you're confident of your position in it. In that sense, it's fairly common sense advice.
That being said, the whole 'always will be' thing is pretty ridiculous. Comics has been a young man's game for quite a while now, agreed - and as a young man myself, I can't say I haven't enjoyed a fair chunk of the stuff directed at me - but that really is changing pretty rapidly. I can think of at least five comics - good ones, at that - off the top of my head that are either directed at or were written/drawn by women. And however clumsy Marvel's recent attempts at 'girl comics' have been, at least they're TRYING to some degree, which is not something you could say about a good chunk of comics history. Things are moving forward, they're just moving slowly, that's all.

Seriously I do agree with part of what I THINK she is trying to say. I've dealt with way too many artists that were "special snowflakes" that need to learn to get along with folks, and try to at least understand the folks they are going to work with.

That being said, I do find the tone of "well, its a guys field so just give up and keep with the flow cause theres no use changing it" pretty ridiculous and rather disgusting coming from a female creator.

This industry has not always been geared towards guys and it doesn't always have to be. The manga boom I think was/is a decent example of how female created/marketed comics can succeed even now.

I would argue that during its heyday, the industry pretty much WAS devoted to guys - if you look at the majority of Golden Age comics, there's the occasional anomaly like Wonder Woman, but the vast majority of them appealed heavily to the likes, dislikes and prejudices of your average preadolescent boy. So it's always at least had an element of that sort of thing, but yeah, there's no field, period, that is solely and entirely a guy's or girl's field. Any sort of person of any gender can create a comic, given half a chance and a little skill and creativity, and they don't necessarily have to be 'girl's comics' or 'boy's comics', either. (To take an example outside of the comics industry, some of the toughest, grimiest, most thoroughly macho films to come out of Hollywood have been helmed by female directors. 'Strange Days', for example.)

To it not being entirely a 'boy's field' thing, Lois Lane was one of DC's top selling books that iirc would even pass Superman at times, believe it or not.

I'd heard that, yeah. It could be argued that the popularity of her series tapped directly into that of Superman's, and featured him in every single story that I can think of, so it and 'Jimmy Olsen' were really just extra Superman books. Not to mention, of course, that for most of its run, the title was pretty much mainlining pure pre-feminist sexism of the most eye-rolling kind, so it really wasn't so much a 'woman's comic' as an excuse for male readers to laugh heartily and go 'wimmen!' (Not to mention that, even by the standards of the times, it could often get incredibly bizarre, so its best-seller nature could probably be explained by its sheer weirdness, if nothing else.)

From what I gather, it did have a good female readership.

I'm guessing it did so well due to crossover- women would buy it because, well, female lead (and while it had pre-feminist sexism, don't forget, so did most other female-targeted stuff at the time. But Lois at least was a headstrong reporter! And got superpowers, and was Superman's girlfriend, and etc.! It being sexist didn't mean it lacked appeal), more focus on character relationships, and the same kind of wacky fun guys bought Superman for. Guys would because wacky fun, and Superman.

I'm sure you're right, but I'm not sure that really makes it a 'women's comic' so much as a comic that involved a woman as the main character and hence drew a female audience starved for such things. Remember, the idea of 'women's comics' at the time were romance comics, which inevitably ended with the girl finding true love. Silver Age Lois was about as far away from 'true love' as you could possibly get - not only did she never get her man, she seldom even came close, given that 'her man' was frequently disgusted by her shrewish actions and set on 'teaching her a lesson'. I can't help but think that, had it been intended as a 'women's comic' from the beginning, it would have pandered more towards what DC editorial saw as 'women's interests'. (And probably would have mucked it up terribly, given that Weisinger was horribly misogynistic, but at least they would have tried.)

The formula was romance-based, though, they just planned for a more continuing comic with a lot more cop-outs to prevent things from concluding. Most of the romance comics were designed to end quickly, I'll note, and a lot of soap operas for women do have "will they/won't they" go on between two characters for a looong period of time (I read shoujo manga, relationship stasis is common as heck there ^^).

Romance-BASED, perhaps, but only vaguely. I can think of a lot of open-ended romantic comics that are designed to preserve the status quo - look at the Archie/Betty/Veronica love triangle, for instance. That's provided both genuine romance and wacky hijinks for, what, almost seventy years now without resolving itself. In the Lois Lane comic, she rarely ever even went out on a date with Superman - she was too busy scheming to get him married to her. Personally, I wouldn't call that romance - I'd call it obsessive stalkerism.

And obsessive stalkerism sells! :)

And makes sitcoms! Ye GODS, just imagine if they'd ever made a TV sitcom out of that comic back then. It'd be... quite something.

during its heyday, the industry pretty much WAS devoted to guys

Not really, no. Women, whether kids or adults, were a big part of Golden Age comics readership. Romance comics in particular were extremely successful and aimed towards women (though most of the creators were men) and by the 1950s there were over a hundred romance titles published, and by major publishers and creators (like Lee and Kirby). And of course women read other genres too--humor, all-ages fare, action, etc. And if we're just focusing on superhero comics, Wonder Woman wasn't exactly an anomaly, as there were multiple female heroes like Fantomah and Miss Masque and Venus who may be obscure now but were definitely stars of their own Golden Age stories. Back when comics were selling, like, 50 million copies a month women were a large part of the marketplace and the publishers knew it.

Oh, I'm not saying that women/girls didn't read comics back then, or that there weren't comics intended for them - just that a LOT of the industry was dominated by 'boy's comics'. If you look at some of the prominent titles at the time, you'll see a number of things like 'Boy's Comics' or 'Young Men' or 'Men At War' and the like - you won't see many 'Women's'. (Also, as i understand it, romance comics were somewhat of a late starter - they only really came into their own in the '50's, as the star of superheroes was fading.)

I really can't even give her the benefit of the doubt for that much, considering that she seems to characterize anything other than "giving in" and being "one of the guys" as "feminist crap", and also seems to put the entire burden of creating a smooth working relationship on the shoulders of the female creator while giving the males a pass because that's just the way things are. It seems a lot less advice for how to give and receive respect than a long-winded version of sit down, shut up, don't make waves and maybe someday they'll overlook the fact that you're just a girl.

Exactly. She's not making a statement about how artists in general shouldn't expect special treatment, she's singling out female creators and telling them not to expect "feminist crap" like, oh, equal treatment because it's a man's world blah blah and if you question a sexist status quo you're "over emotional" or just "want to be attacked" and that's bull. So much bull.

When I was a kid I wanted to draw comics because of Wendy Pini, so this is just damn disappointing to hear from her.

Y'know, this is the first time I've seen 'Leave it to Chance' mentioned on here, and that's a shame, because it really is a classic.

Second for Mouse Guard. Can't believe I forgot that gem.

My favorite fantasy comics are pretty much the usual staples, Bone and Courtney Crumrin. Also Twelve Kingdoms, which is really an anime/novel rather than a comic but I love it so much I'll pimp it again.

Nostalgia wise I loved Books of Magic and Meridian when I was younger. I am not sure if they'd hold up if I read them now.

I'm pretty much torn between 'Bone' and the Oz comics of Eric Shanower, which are excellent. I'd like to be all different and put something new and interesting, but... yeah. That's what I got. ('Camelot 3000' is also an interesting fantasy/sci-fi comic. It's not my FAVORITE, but it's pretty good.)

The adaptations of GRRM's The Hedge Knight and The Sworn Sword are excellent.

Aspirin and Foglio's Mythadventures! I posted a little on S_D 1.0 I think, so will see if I can resurrect it.

I second MythAdvantures! Fantastic set of books.

If webcomics count, I'll recommend Digger by Ursula Vernon, Rice Boy by Evan Dahm (sadly, Order of Tales wasn't as good, but I hold high hopes for Vattu), The Meek by D. Helmer and Roza by Kelly Hamilton.

Probably those old adaptations of Michael Moorcock's Elric stories by Roy Thomas and P. Graig Russell. The art in those was truly mind-blowing.

Here's a vivid image from the first one I recall reading.

Can't view the image, unfortunately, but I remember those. Some of them used to run in Epic Illustrated, which often lived up to its name. I don't have copies any more, but it would be nice to have those stories again. Especially like the surreal Mike Kaluta fantasies, those were amazing.

There's a pity. As the 30 days winds to a close, my request in the special request post way back never did get fulfilled.

Maybe next year.

Artesia is still at the top of my list, despite my carefully hidden yet everburning RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGEEEEEEE at Mark's complete and utter inability to fucking well FINISH Artesia Besieged like he's been promising for the last 5 years!!!111111!!!!eleventyone

[argh]
[gnashes teeth]

[gets a grip]

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30 Days of Winter: Day 29 - Fantasy Comics Master Post

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