Spider-Man #652 Preview: "Hey Guys, Remember That Character We Made Who No-One Likes?"

[misterbug]

"I just saw this really cool film we could use to maybe buff her up a little possibly!"



...And A Writing Team Who Couldn't Let Things Lie.

From Ign's Preview Pages:



"My girl. The girl who is mine. We totally bang. Every single night".

Only Dan Slott and Peter could think Flash getting together with Betty is a good idea. Their last relationship was sparked by her helping him to get out of his depression and alcoholism (he promptly dumped her off-panel when this was over). He's recently suffered MORE depression from his paraplegia. Meanwhile she is ludicrously attempting to write a newsblog based only on the bleary sleep-mutterings of her roommate. And in the above panel, she looks like the drunk one.



...Actually, MJ...cover up that rictus grin, and what you get is a man who looks horribly sad...and not just put-off, seriously depressed. Just looking at him makes me imagine the man bashing his skull against a brick wall out of the sheer frustration of how rotten his life is. Perhaps the artist sympathises with us more than Slott does.

So...Mary-Jane Watson - bitter, self-obsessed, or...



...a dull mouthpiece for Slott's antagonism against anyone who questions his will?

Also: that second panel is just SCREAMING the word 'Threesome'. Look at the douche! That is no warm smile of amusement...his head is filled with visions of girl-on-girl or I'll fry my bowler!

Comments

Dear Team Spider-Man;

[freezer]

Re: Peter/Carlie:

Re: Dear Team Spider-Man;

[nezchan]

Who am I to disagree?

[lilacsigil]

My head is also filled with visions of girl-on-girl but it certainly doesn't involve Peter! A bit of MJ/"Tiger" Carlie with no Peter involvement could go a long way...

[misterbug]

To be fair, Mary-Sue or no Mary-Sue, Carlie deserves better than a manipulative bastard like Dan Slott's portrayal of Peter Parker. But then, anyone does.

[neev]

Aunt May looks like she should be sitting over a cauldron in the opening to Macbeth.

Also, oh my god, ROLLER DERBY? REALLY? I just...it's so...twee and trying too hard to be cool. This really isn't an issue with it being in Spiderman, I'd feel the same about it no matter what comic it was in shoe-horned into.

[fifthie]

I'd feel the same about it no matter what comic it was in shoe-horned into.

Corroborating evidence for this hypothesis: the Roller Derby episode of Psych was basically ass.

And Psych is fantastic the overwhelming majority of the time!

[fifthie]

I'm glad Slott keeps including scenes like these as helpful reminders that he's still writing a terrible alternate-universe fixfic and not stories about the actual characters Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson-Parker.

Otherwise I might forget the difference between those characters and these alternate universe author's-mouthpiece doppelgangers long enough to do something totally crazy like pay actual money for one of these comics! A dreadful happenstance which Mr. Slott is clearly working just as hard to avoid as I am.

[halloweenjack]

We should pass the hat around and get him a gift card to Applebee's, or something. No, wait--Old Navy, there's the ticket.

[big_daddy_d]

It still bothers me greatly that Aunt May is not with Jarvis in those panels. Also...wow...I don't care what anyone says...No fuckin way in hell would I like Carlie after this..just...just no...I was actually considering being open minded about her this month too. In fact..this turned me off the book again..it's like..when i as much as think of wavering...those panels with MJ noting how happy Peter is with her..that just...that's it.

You know what if they are so insistent on Carlie sticking around, then they need to stop the stupid shit and stop with making it feel so forced. No way in hell you can tell me that it's not forced.

Also..seriously I usually love Betty but woooow this is the first time I've seen her drawn so horribly that I'm just turned off from her. She looks like someone who needs to lay off the alcohol and needs to catch more z's.

[misterbug]

It still bothers me that we're back to the era in which Aunt May deviating from the cuddly granny stereotype is either a sign that she's turned evil or a source of comedy. For all his faults, JMS got May right, dammit.

[sinisterlink]

Memo to people writing Spider-man: The horse is dead. It's been dead for quite awhile now. Stop beating it. Thank you.

Honestly, it would be better if they'd stop having people like MJ and Peter go on about how great Carlie really his and instead actually show us why she is great/so perfect for Peter/the best girlfriend ever/whatevs. Seriously, out of all the stuff I've read with Carlie in it, all I've really learned is that she's really into forensic stuff, she's nerdy, and aside from that, she really doesn't have much of a personality and is boring. Oh, and she does roller derby. Yay, I guess. :/ I know I'll probably tick some people of with this, but this is pretty much the same reason why I never liked Gwen and Peter. I just never found Gwen interesting enough to get invested in her character and that's basically what I feel for Carlie. Which is sad since Carlie is a new character and they could do ANYTHING they wanted with her to make her original and exciting.

You know what makes me really sad about this whole Spider-Man thing now? I just realized it recently. After BND started, I was (and still am) very upset about the MJ and Peter thing, but I still bought the new comics, hoping the story would at least be good. I stopped buying monthly around the time the whole Peter/Black Cat sex friends thing started and after that would browse through the new issues in the store and would only buy new issues if I thought the storyline looked interesting. The sad part is, I realized that after OMD, that every issue of Spider-Man that I enjoyed, I liked them not because of Peter, but because of other characters in the story. I find it really sad that I don't actually like Peter when I read Spider-Man comics now. :(

[nezchan]

More to the point, if you want us to like Carlie, make her a good character. Don't just throw a bunch of apparently random character traits at us, have her act it out. It's like watching a D&D player read out his stat sheet, and thinking that's all you need to do.

[tsunamiwombat]

Basically whats going to happen is this:

They've spent so much time showing how perfect Carlie is.

It is inevitable she is going to die. Or become a villain..

OR BOTH.

Get your tickets now folks.

PS: oh peters happy for once just not with me WTF? How many d'aww moments did those two have? None of their great history was erased, they just never got married. Peter still goes with MJ like Dark Self Depreciating Chocolate and Peanut butter.

Also anyone notice Peter totally flirting with MJ there?

"Lady, you are one class act".

Notice how even though Carlie is skating around in a sports bra and short shorts, the chemistry REMAINS with MJ, only now the focus of this Chemistry is "I LOVE CARLIE SO MUCH AND TOTALLY NOT THIS REDHEAD I AM APPRECIATING OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN A TOTALLY NON SEXUAL WAY EVEN THOUGH SHE ROCKS THAT AWESOME HAT"

[misterbug]

Eh, or the third option...she disappears utterly and completely forever. After MJ 'died' under Mackie/Byrne, they began - about a week later, in-universe - structurally hinting that her best friend of the time, Gwen Stacy's cousin Jill, was absolutely perfect for him, to the extent of having her sleeping in Aunt May's place in MJ's robe after coming there drunk, or Peter almost mistaking her for Gwen.

It didn't take and we got MJ back (eventually), and Jill, as well as her father and brother, dissipated into mist.

[schala_kid]

I don't get Marvel's (or Joe Q's because as much as Dan is writing this it was Quesada's idea) hate of MJ, seriously just because she's the girl that Peter has more chemistry with? Does she represent that that pretty girl that rejected them in prom?

Why o why can't we just have Peter Parker and Mary Jane?

[valtyr]

I quite liked the first page, and then another couple of pages wasted on MJ pondering the wonder of Carlie. Jeez, drop it.

[arilou_skiff]

I think the weird thing is that, theoretically, Carlie could be an interesting character. She's law enforcement, which hasn't really been done before, except wiht Jeanne DeWolffe (that entire subplot and it's end remains one of the weirdest things in Spidey history I think) I kind of feel like she's a neat idea stuck in a horrible time-period and writing.

That said, the art is... Ew. It's kind of Pseudo-Ramos-y but without the energy and fun.

[screamsheet.wordpress.com]

The main problem with Carlie is that the writers keep telling the audience through narration how cool and awesome and wonderful she is without showing her actually doing anything interesting. She's not a bad character; she's just written terribly. It's honestly pretty sad that people who are paid to write professionally keep making the same mistake with this character that a middle schooler writing a fanfic would.

[philippos42]

Oh man, two pages there where Slott's awareness of the wrongness of the situation is leaking through, and then we get MJ calling Carlie "tiger" on the third. It's almost like Bernie Cornfeldt hacking up the last page of a Denton Fixx script.

Art's kinda nice though, not like that Ramos crap we've been getting. Some young artist who hasn't had the joy drained out of him yet I guess.

[nezchan]

What's weird is, if you look at it right, it's like someone trying to imitate Adam Warren. Check out Flash there, he's not that far off.

The weird thing is, the art makes it look like a lot of what the characters are saying/narrating is sarcastic or covering up dissatisfaction. Peter totally doesn't look like he's enjoying any of this, and comes off as someone who doesn't like Derby at all but is faking it for Carlie's sake.

[cainofdreaming]

Oh, what a missed opportunity. They could have used rollerball and have Mary-Jane decapitate her.

Well, actually, speedball would be even better but since they started with 'roller'...

<-- nerd. Like there was any doubt.

[screamsheet.wordpress.com]

*Warning: immature rant in 3...2...1...*

Dear Marvel:

STOP SUCKING.

Can we get ONE BLOODY ISSUE where you don't bring up the stupid "Parker Luck" thing? You asshats don't get the friggin' point: Peter isn't unlucky, he's unlucky BECAUSE HE'S SPIDER-MAN. The recurring theme when this "Parker Luck" thing came about was that Peter Parker would have the best life in the world if it wasn't for his responsibilities as Spider-Man. Since you guys have decided that he shouldn't be responsible, then stop bringing up his stupid bad luck. And for chirssakes, stop mentioning every time something goes right for him that he's finally beat that darned "Parker Luck." YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT. AGAIN.

And yes, I know you desperately want to relive your childhood by using all the old clichés that used to be around when you were kids, but Mary Jane does not have to say, "Go get 'em, Tiger," in EVERY APPEARANCE. Hell, just keep her out of the damned book entirely if her only purpose is going to be constantly telling the audience that they should like your newest Mary Sue love interest. Newsflash: NO ONE LIKES CARLIE. Stop shoving her down people's throats.

I don't even care about Spider-Man 99% of the time and even I see how much of a bleeding crime it is to write your most recognizable character this badly. It's not even a matter of bad plotting. All you guys have to do to suck less is to stop spouting stupid irrelevant clichés and to actually SHOW CARLIE DOING SOMETHING COOL OR INTERESTING if you want to make the readers like her.

Just stop it. Stop writing the book like this. Stop doing this to Spider-Man. STOP SUCKING.

[bewareofgeek]

There are some truly strange facial expressions on these pages. I'm not sure some of them are physically possible....

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Ya know, when are writers going to learn that the more you try to force readers to like a character, almost any character, that the readers are going to disagree just on principle?

[thelazyreader]

I find the combination of Peter's hairstyle and the smug look on his face incredibly annoying. Makes me want to punch him through the screen.

[fyborg23]

I, too, thought the hair set off my personal douche-radar. Maybe he's using so much product that his brain has self-destructed?

[hyperactivator]

This scene would have been effective if it was from Carlie's point of view. It would have made her seem more like a main character if we had gotten an internal monolouge from her instead. Say one of Carlie voiceing her insecurites at scampering around in rollerskates and short shorts in front of her new boyfriend and his supermodel ex. Then have her try to impress Peter with her "sweet skills" and end up in MJ's lap leaving her incredibly embarassed. That would be much better.

But instead it's told from MJ POV which makes her seem like a much more important character.

[majingojira]

I'm torn between my love of girl-on-girl/my love of violence and my dislike of several key storytelling tools being misused in so few pages. Hyperactivator is right, Carlie's POV would service this much more, and others pointed out that the more they try to tell us Carlie's good, the less it is going to be accepted by the readers.

SHOW, DON'T TELL DAMNIT!

[silverzeo]

TOO SUBTLE ABOUT MJ AND PETER NO LONGER BEING TOGETHER!

[jaybee3]

I love how they're still trying to convince us that a nerd like Peter who has gotten with not one but THREE drop-dead gorgeous women in his "twentysomething" life (four if you count Betty, five if you count his date with Ms. Marvel) is "unlucky".

Also hadn't MJ moved on from the relationship with Peter - with the actor douche Bobby "Steroidhead" Carr (in a story written by Slott himself IIRC). She was even quasi-living with the guy before she came back to NYC. Now she's back and she's basically written as thinking all the time about Peter's love life. It doesn't compute.

It's funny except for the Spidey books I never get the feeling from Marvel that they're trying to give a "FU" to the old readers. But with everything post-Mephisto it's like you can't open a Spidey book without seeing it (probably not actually the case but it just seems that way to me).

[citygod]

Petey's beginning to look a bit like Andrew Garfield. Wonder has there been an editorial directive...

[ian_karkull]

People are into Roller Derbyunironically? I mean, Whip It was a fun movie but most of the appeal was the cheeseball absurdity of it all for me. Hell, I thought it took place in the 60's half the time.
Anyway, Aunt May with her hair down is one of the most unsettling things I'Ve ever seen.

[greenmask]

Yes

Rollerskates? And safe violence?

Little hearts in my eyes.

[queenrikki]

*lalala*

I will continue to read Ultimate Spider-Man where I still like these characters.

[taggerung301]

same here
:p

[darkblade]

How can you screw this up so badly? Every other possible couple in these pages has better chemistry than Charlie and Peter. Even MJ/Charlie.

On top of that weren't they trying to set up Charlie as a smart nerdy girl to be "perfect" for Peter? Roller Derby is just about the wrongest sport one could possibly find to do that.

[starpiper]

My thoughts on this are roughly about the same as my thoughts on the Cowgirl-Hal-Carol thing in Green Lantern (you know, back when Cowgirl was still around): the more they try to push Carlie as The One, the more I feel that she would be a good platonic friend if she were better developed, but nothing more than that, and that she has better chemistry with her female rival than she does with her boyfriend. If the parallel continues, I'm going to end up shipping MJ/Carlie and pairing Peter up with his blond BFF, Johnny. I think that they're doing Carlie a big disservice by trying to push her as The One, endorsed by all and sundry. Like others have said, maybe if they actually showed things from Carlie's perspective, instead of having others wax rhapsodic while she remains a cipher, she might be more accepted.

If I never have to hear/read the phrase "Parker Luck" again, it'll be all too soon.

I...don't think I like this art very much. Everybody has a weird case of putty lips going on. :/