frostedone: (Default)
[personal profile] frostedone posting in [community profile] scans_daily
2/3 of 1 page from Batman and Robin 20.

Normally I have not been a huge fan of Batman and Robin, but I just had to post this. Damian makes some rude quips about a suicide jumper, calling him Mr. Potato Head so Gordon...


 

Date: 2011-02-11 10:36 pm (UTC)
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)
From: [personal profile] sistermagpie
That he hates plenty of other people does not make him not misogynist when he insults women in specific ways because they're women.
You don't have to conform to a specific macho persona (that's different from the macho persona he does have) to be misogynist.

Likewise, I'm sure there are upper class people Damian also feels for superior to and would insult, but that doesn't mean he's not classist if he considers other people beneath him because they're not from as "noble" a bloodline.

Date: 2011-02-11 10:40 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
but thats the thing i could be wrong, i admit that, but i don't think he has ever said anything disparagingly about women BECAUSE they were women. its just because he feels superior to them.

again, i could be wrong, but like i said, i have never seen him do or say anything to imply that the reason he acts like that is because they are women. he thinks Cassandra and Steph are incompetent, not because they are women, just because they are not him

Date: 2011-02-11 10:47 pm (UTC)
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)
From: [personal profile] sistermagpie
But whether or not he insults them *because* they are women the way he insults them is geared towards them being women. He's using the machinary of sexism at his disposal to put them down, and that's being sexist whether or not if push came to shove he might admit that he didn't think they were that bad. That's why he somehow knows to insult Stephanie's body--call her fat, say her breasts are too small and dismiss Catwoman as a tramp.

Date: 2011-02-11 11:00 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
as i stated above Steph kinda started the chest one. She made a snarky comment along the lines of "eyes up here" and he responded with "What chest" (not saying that was okay, im just saying, if steph is going to poke the dog, she should not be surprised if it bites her)

as far as teh Tramp coment (remember he is Talia Al ghul's son) that might have somethign to do with that (again not saying its okay in fact if i was selina i would have clawed his eyes out, then told him about how HIS mom raped his dad...)

that said. i agree with what you mean about the specifics of his attacks on the girls, (body image and sexuality) he could simply say things like they are "Incompetent" "unqualified" or "suck at thier job" then it would be like, okay damien, we get it, you think youre the shit.

throwing in sexuality and gender that way is a tract that does not need to be followed... and if it is it should be addressed... not just... "Oh well, that's Damien for you" i am honestly waiting for one of the girls to have enough and string him up by his undies on Titan tower...

Date: 2011-02-11 11:13 pm (UTC)
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)
From: [personal profile] sistermagpie
as i stated above Steph kinda started the chest one. She made a snarky comment along the lines of "eyes up here" and he responded with "What chest" (not saying that was okay, im just saying, if steph is going to poke the dog, she should not be surprised if it bites her)


Well...that it's not actually snarky for a girl to tell a boy to stop staring at her chest. That's correcting behavior that's already rude. So Damian started it.

And I do think Damian would come across completely differently if he just called them incompetent--as long as girls weren't always incompetent.

I don't, actually, want him to get strung up in Titans Tower for it, or clobbered. As over-serious as it sounds even to myself, I'd really rather have it addressed seriously like the way Gordon is dealing with his disrespect here. I want Dick to just make it unacceptable because it is. Because I think him getting beaten up by girls for it just opens the door to the whole "woo-hoo! She's a feisty filly that showed him what for and now he's more attracted to her than ever!"

Date: 2011-02-11 11:10 pm (UTC)
jarodrussell: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jarodrussell
He's using the machinary of sexism at his disposal to put them down, and that's being sexist...

This is where my brain always locks up in discussions on sexism. It's seems kind of paradoxical to say using sexist terms makes you sexist because it's sexist to use a sexist term.

I'm trying to Ist-shift this from sexism to ableism and try to imagine how I'd feel if Damian called Oracle a cripple, but that just leads to imagining him saying, "When my spine was broken, I threw it out and got a new one, what's your excuse?" and then I nod and agree with him, which I think defeats the purpose of trying to Ist-shift in the first place.

Dear me, I think I may leave this conversation agreeing with [personal profile] bluefall that Damian Wayne is a misogynist, which makes me wants to be a misogynist because Damian makes it look so cool...and I know that's not right. Oh bother.

Date: 2011-02-11 11:28 pm (UTC)
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)
From: [personal profile] sistermagpie
For me the key is that it's pointless to think it terms of "makes you sexist." Same with racist or ablist or whatever. Because then it gets focused on this label that may or may not exist on a person's soul, and if they have that label they're this terrible thing and if they don't they're fine. So people start arguing about what the person really feels deep down etc. Does that make sense?

So basically, sexist terms don't make you sexist (imo). They are sexist, so is you're using them to put down women you're using sexism to put down women and therefore being sexist there.That doesn't mean you have to be sexist tomorrow, but you're taking advantage of that tool today. I just feel like you need to own it if you're doing it and not take advantage of it while also being reassured you're a guy really cool about women.

With the Oracle example, I admit I don't think there's anything inherently ablist about one person with a spinal injury being incredulous at somebody else not wanting to walk again. Calling Oracle a cripple would be using ablism to insult her since it seems like he's saying she's in a wheel chair and therefore she's generally inferior. But I think that's a slightly different thing than saying he thinks she's really strange for not wanting to walk. I don't think Damian would be able to wrap his mind around that one at all.

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