Commissioner Gordon shows Damian whats what.

[frostedone]

2/3 of 1 page from Batman and Robin 20.

Normally I have not been a huge fan of Batman and Robin, but I just had to post this. Damian makes some rude quips about a suicide jumper, calling him Mr. Potato Head so Gordon...


 

Comments

[icon_uk]

Is telling an obnoxiously rude child, who is only there on your sufferance, to behave themselves when they are in your house really putting a "hold on a child"?

[frostedone]

Yeah Dick has earned the right to be beside Jim in uniform during a situation like this. Damian is just some punk kid who is there because his boss is there too. He is being rude in Jim's HQ.

Also we need to factor in that Damian is no ordinary child here, he is a Robin. He has to be tough and worldly to even be in a situation where there is a crushed dead body. Jim is just trying to show him to be respectful.

Jim is also likely worried about the boys future if he ever becomes Batman. He has a good working relationship with Bruce, Dick, Tim, and co. He may worry about the kind of Batman Damian will grow up to be if he continues with this attitude.

[icon_uk]

Good thing Jim didn't read Batman 666, or he'd be REALLY worried.

[droolfangrrl]

Telling? Heck, no.

But if you look at the second panel Gordon has Damian in a pretty painful hold depending on how much he's pushing/ pulling that arm.

I just problems with it that Damian is, in the end, a child, and if he's such a good martial artist kid how was Gordon able to put him in that hold.

[icon_uk]

Ah, I see what you mean, hadn't noticed the half-nelson

I think it's probably a case of Gordon knowing how much pressure to apply to inconvenience Damian, Dick trusting Gordon, and Damian knowing that if he so much as raises a hand to Gordon, the rest of the Bat-clan will take it in turns to fire him and then beat him up.

[droolfangrrl]

hm.... maybe, I haven't been reading this comic, not a bad try at a no prize

but my uncomfortable feeling with this remains

[bluefall]

Well, that's the thing. Is he a child, or is he a martial artist?

Is he able to fight, to defend himself, to take responsibility for his behavior? Is it acceptable for him to administer violence to others? If so, he needs to be prepared to face the consequences, and it's acceptable for others to administer violence to him.

Is he still a child, worthy of protection, who should be carefully shielded, and against whom it is fundamentally wrong to perpetrate violence? If so, he shouldn't be allowed to decide to commit violence, or expect to be treated with respect and equality by adults, and it's unacceptable to allow him a responsibility as significant and as requiring of maturity as being Robin.

[frostedone]

Like I said he is a Robin, no longer a "kid". He has responsibilities that go beyond that of what most kids have. He should act like an adult in matters like this, or else he shouldn't be a Robin. When Dick was Robin he joked around and stuff sure, but he was still respectful and responsible.

[sadoeuphemist]

It's just weird in general coming from Gordon. Even if it's a full-grown man being disrespectful to a corpse, Gordon's going to twist his arm behind his back like that? That's really weird and aggressive, coming from him.

Also, "acceptable for others to administer violence to him" applies in fight scenes and to villains (or other heroes, depending), not to Commissioner Gordon in a peaceful scenario.

[droolfangrrl]

THIS!

It's that it's GORDON. It just flies in the face of my concept of the character. I could see him dressing then both down, but grabbing him like that I find just so very off.

[icon_uk]

A similar sort of debate happened many moons ago, back when Jason 1.0 was around. Calendar Man took a commission for a "hit" on Batman, and started by dropping hints that he was actually planning to kill Robin ("The first day of Spring" being a suitable theme for him), guessing that Batman would automatically keep Robin out of action for a few days and thus lessen his effectiveness, which Batman does. Jason (like any good Robin) doesn't listen and they end up discussing whether Robin is a help or a hindrance because if Batman keeps treating him like a normal kid then he WILL be a hindrance, but Jason argues that being Robin, almost by definition, means you're NOT a normal kid.

I posted it on SD 1.0, so probably have the html still around somewhere, I might post it for comparison (and for the nice art too of course)

[sistermagpie]

Yeah, his being a martial artist does make this pretty unlikely. Though I can't say I have a problem with him being a child, because one of the reasons people like scenes like this is that Damian is so ridiculous spoiled most of the time. Characters routinely stand around helplessly while he insults them and gets away with it. Ironically when somebody does say something to him that actually hurts his feelings it often gets the same response as Gordon's hold here does--that it's mean because he's a little kid with feelings. Which is frustrating as hell! Itkeeps validating the lesson that Damian can hurt others physically and insult him but can't be touched physically or emotionally.

There's really no reason for Gordon to have him in this hold here. It would be more effective, imo, if he just got told he wasn't welcome with that kind of attitude. Ironically, this *is* Damian's weakspot, people treating him like he's the unwanted person his personality would make him. It's right that Gordon should shame him here, but there's no reason for him to show off his choke hold skills to do it. I'd also love it if Gordon took Dick aside and laid the law down with him about the kind of behavior he accepts from Robin.

[droolfangrrl]

And this as well. Thanks for the help in clarifying what I was trying to say. My problem is with Gordon's characterization. Physically he's a normal human a middle aged cop. I will hold with him being able to do a lot of stuff, but this is kind of like....

Has he said ANYTHING to robin before?

oh and a choke hold is like around the neck, this is called a half nelson.

[sistermagpie]

D'oh! That'll teach me not to check back with the picture before describing a hold.:-)

[droolfangrrl]

Heh, no worries, I couldn't remember the name until iconuk said it.

I think I need to see what other Damian and Gordon interaction there is before I can come to a conclusion.