Date: 2011-02-24 09:26 pm (UTC)
wizardru: SadHulk (SadHulk)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
I think what you meant to say there was 'how much do FANS hate Wonder Woman?', given that it was the commercial failure of her DVD that resulted in no sequel.

Public Enemies (which I was very disappointed in) sold 520,000 copies. Wonder Woman sold about 105,000. Superman Doomsday sold 600,000 copies. First Flight sold 360,000 copies. New Frontier sold 300,000 copies. Apocalypse sold about 330,000.

Don't blame DC for not making a sequel of a well-reviewed but poor selling video. Blame fans for NOT BUYING IT.

Date: 2011-02-24 09:37 pm (UTC)
jarodrussell: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jarodrussell
I stand corrected.

Everyone hates Wonder Woman.

Date: 2011-02-24 10:37 pm (UTC)
nezchan: Navis at breakfast (Default)
From: [personal profile] nezchan
Out of curiosity, how well was the WW movie marketed? I don't watch TV or buy floppies (at the moment), so I don't see a lot of what's out there, commercial-wise.

Date: 2011-02-24 11:41 pm (UTC)
radioactivepiss: Batman and Robin from Young Justice smiling ([Batman & Robin] :))
From: [personal profile] radioactivepiss
I don't know. I doubt a single poorly-selling Superman title would sink future titles, and WW is up there in terms of 'iconic franchise'.

Date: 2011-02-25 01:52 am (UTC)
akodo_rokku: (Default)
From: [personal profile] akodo_rokku
I think that's highly debatable. Wondy might be considered "big three" by comics fans, but she doesn't have the same stature generally.

Date: 2011-02-25 01:55 am (UTC)
radioactivepiss: Cassandra Cain in costume wielding batarangs ([Batgirl] edge)
From: [personal profile] radioactivepiss
Really? I doubt I know a single person- and I don't know any comics geeks IRL- who doesn't recognise the name and couldn't describe what she looks like. I'd say that's pretty iconic. Not quite Superman level, no, but I'd say she's not that far off.

Date: 2011-02-25 09:55 am (UTC)
neev: Be Yourself Until You Bleed (Default)
From: [personal profile] neev
Unfortunately, iconic isn't the same as marketable though. I suspect that for a lot of non-comic fans they know Wonder Woman from the old TV-show and her older comics, where she's seen as just kind of crazy and weird. She's an icon, but more of an era than an enduring symbol of heroism. In her more recent incarnations she absolutely does not have the same clout as Batman or Superman. And, no matter how you try to spin it, the DVD sales (though obviously possibly due to other factors such as marketing push as well) do seem to bear that out.

Quite frankly, no one knows how to handle Wonder Woman these days, I think. She's almost never given free rein to be a truly feminist superhero like she should be and the stories that get told about her are weaker because of it. She doesn't have much by way of a rogues gallery the way Batman or Superman do, there's no big, iconic, ideological battle to really grab people's attention and so, quite frankly, she tends to be really boring. She's one of those characters that I really WANT to like but rarely ever do.

Date: 2011-02-25 12:36 pm (UTC)
radioactivepiss: Kate Kane and Renee Montoya looking at each other ([Kate/Renee] stare)
From: [personal profile] radioactivepiss
And before BB/TDK, wasn't that the case with Batman? At least, these are my experiences (and for a hell of a lot of the general public he's STILL Adam West). I agree she's handled atrociously and nobody seems to know what to do with her, but I really don't think that's a problem inherent to the character since, well, it's 'these days' not 'ever'.

The best thing they could do with Wonder Woman, IMO, is to play fast and loose with canon in a film a bit to give her more of a focus... but I suppose people would definitely complain, hah.

Date: 2011-02-25 01:01 pm (UTC)
radioactivepiss: Cassandra Cain in costume wielding batarangs ([Batgirl] edge)
From: [personal profile] radioactivepiss
OK, maybe this is my youth showing then- most of the people I know would have no idea what you meant by those things. Though I don't know that the more recent cartoons (post-DCAU basically), much as I'm fond of them, would really reduce the campy feel.

Date: 2011-02-25 06:33 pm (UTC)
neev: Be Yourself Until You Bleed (Default)
From: [personal profile] neev
She's a female character and at the moment there is a LOT of resistance to giving female characters the treatment she needs to be a good, interesting, dynamic character. I mean, it is certainly possible - in the right hands she could be amazing. I definitely agree that playing fast and loose with her canon is the way to go - I don't think that most people are all that familiar with her canon and it's not really all that set in stone anyway in terms of definitive moments. Buuuuuut that really hinges on her being allowed to be a hero and not written as someone who worries about her breast size and goes on an ice cream binge because she's sad about her ex-boyfriend. Which isn't to say that she shouldn't have fears or be sad about things or whatever, but GDI she grew up in an all woman environment that is very different from the US culturally, the things she worries about are going to be different.

Date: 2011-02-25 04:55 am (UTC)
darkblade: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darkblade
As someone who bought it can we blame DC for making it a terrible film?

Date: 2011-02-26 12:07 am (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Wait a minute, I may be mistaken, but I heard that the WW movie sold poorly at first, but then the sales caught up and her movie ended up selling better than Green Lantern's.

Are you sure the sales you posted are up-to-date?

Date: 2011-02-26 03:53 am (UTC)
benicio127: (Lois love)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
I agree. It wasn't a commercial failure. It had a slow start and I don't have the numbers at my fingertips, but it still ended up doing well.

Date: 2011-02-26 04:41 am (UTC)
joeyconqueso: (Default)
From: [personal profile] joeyconqueso
The 105,000.was just Wonder Woman's first week numbers. It sold at least 423,261 and made about $6,687,580 but I guess that was still disappointing to WB.

It actually outsold First Flight in the long run ($5,972,031) but that live-action tie-in publicity definitely got them to greenlight this new one.

Date: 2011-02-28 08:57 pm (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
Interesting. According to the numbers, you're absolutely right.

I suspect the reason then must be something to do with A: not having a movie tie-in or the prospect of same (the strange TV show that's just been announced not really hitting the expected demographic, IMHO) and B: the fact that Wonder Woman, iconic or not, DOES NOT SELL COMICS.

Seriously: She may be the most prominent female superhero in existence (especially outside of comic fandom), but she doesn't sell a lot of comics on her own. Superman and Batman both support multiple monthlies. Wonder Woman rarely clears 30,000 copies these days, rarely cleared 50,000 since the 1980s and rarely ever broke 100,000. I wonder if she's ever commanded big sales. When she was selling 170,000 a month, Batman was selling more like 500,000 and Spiderman around 350,000.

I wonder if DC's equation had to do with cross-marketing efforts? Maybe they see the other properties driving toy sales and not Wonder Woman? I don't know.

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