scans_daily: Birds of Prey v2 #10

sailorlibra (

scans_daily,
@ 2011-03-10 01:49 pm UTC

Entry tags:

char: batgirl/oracle/barbara gordon, char: batman/bruce wayne, char: batman/dick grayson, char: black canary/dinah lance, char: blue beetle/jaime reyes, char: booster gold/michael jon carter, char: catwoman/selina kyle, char: hawk/hank hall, char: huntress/helena bertinelli, char: manhunter/kate spencer, char: misfit/charlotte gage-radcliffe, char: robin/red robin/tim drake, char: spoiler/batgirl/robin/steph brown, creator: gail simone, creator: inaki miranda, publisher: dc comics, title: birds of prey

Birds of Prey v2 #10

Four pages from the latest issue of BoP.

Everyone who read last month's issue remembers the horribly fake death of Oracle helicopter explosion scene. This issue doesn't waste too much time making it clear she was just faking it.

Apparently Babs is responsible for some of the really annoying events that have happened in Generation Lost so far, insofar as she could have stopped them, but choose not to. Thanks a lot, Oracle.

Catwoman stops by to see Hel and Dinah for the sole purpose of making it clear she's not fooled.

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airawyn
2011-03-10 07:33 pm UTC (link)

Well. I like that Oracle's not going to be at the beck and call of every hero with a cell phone, because there are other people who can do that. But I hate that montage with her leaving all those people without an info source. It would've been better if we'd seen Proxy and other info jockeys stepping in to take over at that moment, because otherwise that's some major Bird-dickery.

Steph is still taller than Tim. Heh.

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	no subject darkknightjrk 2011-03-10 07:38 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, that could make it a little less dick-ish--focus instead on one hero contacting Oracle and having it transfer to Proxy, who tells them that Oracle isn't around anymore, but she can help them out. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

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darkknightjrk
2011-03-10 07:37 pm UTC (link)

Whoof. I think this arc suffered from two things: Overhype, and fill-ins. Maybe it was my own expectations, but I'd think with a story-line called "The Death of Oracle," it would be a bit more epic than this and focus more on, you know, Oracle.

Also, the fill-ins here were really bad--at least with the last two arcs, the fill-ins reasonably matched Benes' art--but here we went from Syaf to March to, well, THIS. I really, really, REALLY hope Seiz can stay on for a long time, because I'm not sure if I could take another round of this.

The actual plot and dialoge of this is solid, but those two things really pulled it down for me, IMO.

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gargoylekitty
2011-03-10 07:38 pm UTC (link)

Dang, that's worse than Tumblr made me imagine even.

Ignoring* the bullshit in not telling Cass(ummm... even if they couldn't have her in the issue, why couldn't she state that Cass was informed and just couldn't make it or something? I don't understand how, from what I've heard, 'she can't be in the issue' = 'she can't know'.)

Haven't been up on DC, but has Misfit met Steph before? Specifically as Batgirl? Just wondering how that conflicts with the whole 'superheroing is dangerous, Steph died' bit.

*okay, not really

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darkknightjrk
2011-03-10 07:54 pm UTC (link)

"ummm... even if they couldn't have her in the issue, why couldn't she state that Cass was informed and just couldn't make it or something? I don't understand how, from what I've heard, 'she can't be in the issue' = 'she can't know'"

I can see that--maybe Babs could say something like, "she's busy with what's she's doing in Hong Kong right now, I'll let her know that I'm not dead as soon as I can find a more secure way than e-mail."

Also, the closest I can think of to Misfit meeting Steph was the whole Wonder Woman #600 thing, but that was a huge group shot and they might not have even spoken to each other.

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sinisterlink
2011-03-10 07:41 pm UTC (link)

Soooo...okay, I'm not really getting this. What is Oracle doing, now? Is she only gonna help the Bats out with stuff or is she not helping ANYBODY and just gonna watch everything until she sees an event that she actually wants to get involved in, or what? Honestly, I've tried to like Oracle but I just can't. Along with other things she just always seems to have this coldness with her that I don't like.

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starwolf_oakley
2011-03-10 07:47 pm UTC (link)

I've never liked Barbara that much, and I can understand her prickly personality given the Joker shot her just to prove a point about the nature of mental illness. She is TERRIBLE when it comes to mentoring younger heroes. Something involving Stephanie and/or Charlie is going to go horribly wrong. It is SO obvious!

There are things Oracle is good at. Now she doesn't *want* to do one of the things she is VERY good so criminals will get reckless. Or something.

To what degree Proxy and others can fill in for Oracle when and where needed.... well, that will probably be a topic in BATGIRL... maybe.

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	no subject turtlefu 2011-03-10 07:46 pm UTC (link)
	1) So is Dinah and Helena not in on new Oracle now? She just kicked out two of her closest friends altogether? 2) What is Oracle even going to be doing now? Like, if she's not going to be info-jockey/support for heroes, what's her purpose? (Reply to this) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject lencannon 2011-03-10 07:57 pm UTC (link)
	They are definitely in. The Birds inner monologue in the books make it clear that they were aware of the plan from the first issue of the arc. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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lencannon
2011-03-10 07:55 pm UTC (link)

I'm not a big fan of the new plan. I know the internet is arguing about Cass being/not being included but I'll let other hash it out for now. It seems like an odd direction and I'm not sure about where this is going.

Oh well, I really liked the scene with Catwoman and the rest of the book was really great too. We'll just see where things are going. Still one of my favorite books every month.

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	no subject sistermagpie 2011-03-10 08:08 pm UTC (link)
	Not really getting the burden this would be to Cass...much less what else she's got on her plate that makes it too much. Which I guess is the idea. Cass is in limbo but I should imagine there's a very important reason and she's very very busy in Hong Kong. And one day somebody will make one up. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 9 comments) (Show 9 comments)

	no subject espanolbot 2011-03-10 09:58 pm UTC (link)
	According to Gail, she was going to include Cass in the Birds of Prey cast, but was told that she had been labelled "hands off" for some reason that she didn't know. She guessed that it might be an appearence in Batman Inc. or something, but she didn't know for certain. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 8 comments) (Show 8 comments)

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	no subject thanekos 2011-03-10 08:15 pm UTC (link)
	Bruce isn't there; they just propped up a standee. And, judging by everyone's reactions to her, Misfit is out of phase with reality. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 4 comments) (Show 4 comments)

	no subject slippy 2011-03-10 08:49 pm UTC (link)
	It's extremely creepy that Bruce's only contribution on these pages is to go from >:( to :). (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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junipepper, 2011-03-12 06:42 pm UTC (Expand)

"I was never a whiz with computers anyway."

jarodrussell
2011-03-10 08:18 pm UTC (link)

People gather data not software. Uh-oh, someone better tell Google they're doing it wrong. Ha ha ha.

Am I the only one who thinks her reasoning is fucked up? How in the age of Anonymous, WikiLeaks, and Daniel Suarez's Daemon can anyone say that the best way to deal with the mess Oracle's lack of secret identity is to rewind back to the 90's when she was a secret? Blow up big time, Babs. Put of face on digital crime fighting.

But what can you expect from someone who thinks the first step into going underground is to build a giant spire in the middle of Gotham City? Answer: expect Birds of Prey.

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	Re: "I was never a whiz with computers anyway." mrstatham 2011-03-10 08:23 pm UTC (link)
	What gets me is that Oracle states what you've cropped out there and then says that there's only 'one Oracle'. But if you're not helping people and you're hiding from the villains again, then what fucking good are you, and why the Hell do you have such an over-inflated sense of self-worth, Barbara? (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 3 comments) (Show 3 comments)

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	no subject proteus_lives 2011-03-10 08:22 pm UTC (link)
	She is ultra-creepy. Another world, she's best secret police head around. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 3 comments) (Show 3 comments)

	no subject sinisterlink 2011-03-10 08:43 pm UTC (link)
	That last panel of her is super creepy. Sitting in front of tons of screens being all voyeuristic while drinking tea. Seems like something a creeptastic villian would do, not a hero. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

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daningram.insanejournal.com
2011-03-10 08:46 pm UTC (link)

Okay, can we stop pretending now that DC doesn't hate Cass?

By Gail's own admission, she would have used her if possible. Yet the very rare times we ever even hear about Cass' character, it's how she's gone. Her last series outsold Hawkman, Catwoman and Firestorm, yet she's still gone. The last issue of her mini series only sold 5 thousand less copies than Steph, despite their efforts at sabotage, and yet she remains gone.

Her big appearance in Red Robin? A few lousy pages where she provides some exposition and then disappears.

Pattern recognition should be obvious at this point.

Also, not fond of rolling back the clock. It doesn't make any sense, especially given now that the villains have their own evil Oracle.

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jarodrussell
2011-03-10 08:50 pm UTC (link)

Okay, can we stop pretending now that DC doesn't hate Cass?

Only if we can stop pretending Gail Simone is a separate entity from DC.

By her own writing, she doesn't include Cass. Two words on a list. One dialog bubble that says she has access. They're Kord Tower for goodness sake, so it's not like it's impossible to positively include people who can't be used in the book.

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Fixed some grammar bugs -

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	no subject leikomgwtfbbq 2011-03-10 08:46 pm UTC (link)
	Steph and Charlie should team up and have an adventure. It would be awesome. (Reply to this)

	no subject kusonaga 2011-03-10 09:39 pm UTC (link)
	I just... I don't... What is this? (Reply to this)

	no subject sinisterlink 2011-03-10 09:57 pm UTC (link)
	So is this the first we've seen of Charlie with Barbara since Babs basically dumped her off in the last BOP series? (Reply to this)

	no subject arysteia 2011-03-10 10:07 pm UTC (link)
	I've tried to like Oracle, because so many of y'all do, but... I just can't. Impossible. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject sinisterlink 2011-03-10 10:14 pm UTC (link)
	I feel you. There have been quite a few comic characters that people around here reeeeally like that I just can't stand or can't get into. But then again, I like quite a few characters that people around here seem to hate. Different strokes, etc. :) (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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daningram.insanejournal.com
2011-03-10 10:08 pm UTC (link)

Ya know, Cass issue aside, I still don't like this change. Oracle isn't making things better, she's making things worse.

The villains still have their own evil Oracle, that's not going to change. But now the heroes are going without a source of reliable information and intercommunication.

So come the next Crisis, they won't be able to rally together faster, they won't have information when they need it, meanwhile the villains are more coordinated and more able to avoid the heroes.

Instead of leaving heroes in a lurch, why not try to step up her game?

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jlbarnett
2011-03-11 01:42 am UTC (link)

it seems likely the info Barbara collects will still be disseminated through the Birds and the Bat-Family and Proxy.

Of course the villains will realize this and assume the heroes have a new info jockey. Since they don't know that Barbara was Oracle they could still connect the heroes info jockey to her. Basically this whole thing could have been accomplished with a misinformation campaign.

"Oracle's actually a computer network"

"Oracle is hundreds of people"

etc.

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espanolbot
2011-03-10 10:09 pm UTC (link)

*reads pages*

*reads the explaination for Cass' abscence*

*reads Misfit's dialogue with Steph*

*inhales*

BARBARA, HOW IS THAT... THING MORE EMOTIONALLY MATURE THAN CASSANDRA CAIN??? I mean, come on, the first thing she does it pick a fight with another one of the team, but that's not going to have bad repercussions is it?

Oh wait, she did that to Black Alice when Charlie thought that she might be taking her place, and it resulted in Black Alice going evil again.

Admittedly Steph isn't the "going evil" sort, but come on! Charlie isn't exactly the most stable person in the room, and when you're in a room with freaking BATMAN that's saying something.

Aghhh... Look, I know that Gail wasn't allowed to use Cass due to some Editorially Mandated Schenanigans, but replacing her with Charlie is just painful!

Eck, from a character perspective, think of how Cass'll be messed up when she hears that Barbara is "dead"? When she thought that Bruce was gone was bad enough, but jeez...

Still, Cass is good with emotional trauma. Bound to be no fallout from this at all, especially as she's involved with something so important that letting her know her adoptive mother is still alive would apparently be detrimental to her in some way.

Agh! I angry!

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mrstatham
2011-03-11 06:51 am UTC (link)

Yeah. Cass Cain and Misfit, even Steph and Misfit are leagues apart, frankly. Two of them are mature and responsible and skilled individuals (both of whom are making up for fairly large mistakes in their past), and the other is an arrogant, childish bonehead who screams out ridiculous catchphrases in the middle of a fight, managed to blow up a lovely portion of Metropolis through her ineptitude, and scared off a prospective Birds member who needed help and was willing to help Oracle at the time.

Great choice, yeah. Like I said above, it shows bizarre favouritism on Simone's behalf that she'd put Misfit there and not someone like, say, Gypsy or someone else who proved to be a pretty good operative. But then, Simone did slot Black Alice into Secret Six, which makes about as much sense, so why am I surprised?

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	no subject llei 2011-03-10 11:26 pm UTC (link)
	So, Babs faked Oracle's death, but not Barbara Gordon's, right? She'll go on living her Barbara life as normal. But don't way more people in the super-community already know that Babs is Oracle? How does that work? (Reply to this) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 3 comments) (Show 3 comments)

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lorriek
2011-03-11 02:26 am UTC (link)

That's what I was thinking. Maybe I'm just thick, but this plan of Barbara's doesn't make much sense to me. So, if Cass, for example, knows that Babs is alive, but that Oracle is "dead", does that mean that Cass just assumes that Babs has retired from the superhero business? Why would anyone who knows Barbara actually believe that?

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q99, 2011-03-11 07:56 pm UTC (Expand)

Not sure what all the criticism is about..

steverodgers5
2011-03-11 12:13 am UTC (link)

I really, really enjoyed this issue. There were some great lines, and a lot of fun character interaction. Helena in particular was awesome.

Granted the artwork maybe isn't as strong as we've been used to..(Funny how some folks are missing a previous artist that they used to wail on for his fan service shots now...) but I thought this was the most fun read from DC this week. (I mean jeez did you see that ending to Titans?..Urggh!)

As for Oracle. I think it's maybe early days yet to judge that particular direction. Though maybe it might be good for Barbara to rotate through some new online monikers. She's only got herself to blame for creating the mystique of one all knowing Oracle guiding and linking up all the good guys. Bad guys were bound to tumble to that eventually. Maybe she could have different names with different groups next time, so that the villains don't go looking for one particular critical hub, as it were..

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	no subject irrelevant 2011-03-11 12:25 am UTC (link)
	O_o o_O So, uh... what exactly are you going to be doing now, Babs? PS, you really dropped the ball with Proxy. She may not be Oracle, but she seems to be doing a pretty good job of making it look like she is. (Reply to this)

	I knew this would be a game changer but.. big_daddy_d 2011-03-11 01:22 am UTC (link)
	ummm the point of this was for Oracle to make a decision to no longer be available to everyone? Not saying it's good or bad..just..not sure about htis. I knew she'd fake her death. Hell who didn't see that? I figured she'd change her name, be more agressive..idk..Gonna take a wait and see stance on this. (Reply to this)

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retro_nouveau
2011-03-11 02:29 am UTC (link)

Heh! Bringing up Cass' name is actually pretty cool to me. What Gail was probably supposed to do is pretend that Cass doesn't exist at all.

Next, it seems pretty obvious that Charlie is ragingly jealous of the usurper, which is completely understandable. I definitely want them to get stuck working together, I like having her around.

Third, the Filthy Bastard Midget not being mentioned at all makes me very, very happy.

This might be just me, but Big Sister might have helped out those three without their knowing, or she at least knew that they were able to get out of trouble on their own, because it looks like they're turning it around in the last panel she's in.

Seven keyboards? Really? Redundant backups, or is she hiding a dozen new extra arms? XD

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	no subject q99 2011-03-11 07:58 pm UTC (link)
	-Heh! Bringing up Cass' name is actually pretty cool to me. - Ditto (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject philippos42 2011-03-11 04:08 am UTC (link)
	And then Booster & Jaime died because Babsdickery. Well, Khaji Da can take out an 'OMAC' well enough (aren't those all gone anyway?) But sooner or later this will end badly if writers take it seriously. Best thing to do is decide this issue never happened. Sort of like the Chip Delany-written issue of Wonder Woman where she says she doesn't like women... (Reply to this)

	no subject frostedone 2011-03-11 04:17 am UTC (link)
	I am happy that Gail brought up Cass. Just because her bosses say she can't use her, doesn't mean she doesn't like Cass. She would use her if she could. Just mentioning her as still existing is a GOOD thing! (Reply to this)

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jaybee3
2011-03-11 04:41 am UTC (link)

I believe this is the first time Barbara has acknowledged Cassandra even exists in a year and a half in comics (during which Babs had been a regular in at least two different comics). A little bit late, yet...yay, Gail.

I still have a problem with Canary still being so comfortable around Hawk as if the guy didn't kill two men she loved (Charles McNider and Al Pratt) even if it was a somehow "different" Hank Hall at the time. I've never known DInah Lance to beat around the bush on stuff like this (at least during her respective BoP runs).

As for the art, that's a lot of posing going on there. Seems unnatural.

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	no subject lencannon 2011-03-11 10:27 pm UTC (link)
	I think this is probably a case of "we're all choosing to forget this happened as much as possible." (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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Birds of Prey v2 #10

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"I was never a whiz with computers anyway."

Re: "I was never a whiz with computers anyway."

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Not sure what all the criticism is about..

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I knew this would be a game changer but..

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