sailorlibra: (i am amused)
sailorlibra ([personal profile] sailorlibra) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2011-03-10 01:49 pm

Birds of Prey v2 #10

Four pages from the latest issue of BoP.



Everyone who read last month's issue remembers the horribly fake death of Oracle helicopter explosion scene. This issue doesn't waste too much time making it clear she was just faking it.

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Apparently Babs is responsible for some of the really annoying events that have happened in Generation Lost so far, insofar as she could have stopped them, but choose not to. Thanks a lot, Oracle.

Catwoman stops by to see Hel and Dinah for the sole purpose of making it clear she's not fooled.

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starwolf_oakley: (Default)

[personal profile] starwolf_oakley 2011-03-10 07:47 pm (UTC)(link)
I've never liked Barbara that much, and I can understand her prickly personality given the Joker shot her just to prove a point about the nature of mental illness. She is TERRIBLE when it comes to mentoring younger heroes. Something involving Stephanie and/or Charlie is going to go horribly wrong. It is SO obvious!

There are things Oracle is good at. Now she doesn't *want* to do one of the things she is VERY good so criminals will get reckless. Or something.

To what degree Proxy and others can fill in for Oracle when and where needed.... well, that will probably be a topic in BATGIRL... maybe.

[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2011-03-10 07:56 pm (UTC)(link)
I like Oracle as a character, but I have to agree--it's odd that people give Batman so much shit when it comes to "bat-dick," when lately she's been just as bad, if not worse.
starwolf_oakley: (Default)

[personal profile] starwolf_oakley 2011-03-10 07:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Indeed. To me, the worst of Bat-dickery is when Batman is a jerk to other superheroes. Now Oracle is being a jerk by not helping them when they call for it. Yes, she is going to have Proxy and others pick up the slack, but still...
jarodrussell: (Default)

[personal profile] jarodrussell 2011-03-10 08:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Or not...

O’Shea: How important is Proxy’s presence in terms of allowing the series dynamics to gel and further set the series apart from the other Bat books?

Miller: Though she’s very important to how Batgirl’s world operates, Proxy has some personal issues coming up that may start to get in the way of her duties in Firewall.


http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2011/03/talking-comics-with-tim-bryan-q-miller/
mrstatham: (Default)

[personal profile] mrstatham 2011-03-10 08:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Actually, I'd argue Stephanie has grown and become way, way more competent since the days of War Games. Misfit, on the other hand, IS a bad choice because she's a complete idiot who basically treats going to war with supervillains as a game.

That she's even in this scene shows some bizarre favouritism on Simone's behalf for someone who should never have even been with the Birds in the first place. They're an elite, covert team, they don't need some idiot who screams 'Dark Vengeance' everytime she punches someone.

Stephanie's proved herself. Charlie hasn't. There's a difference. And this isn't even a matter of mentoring younger heroes - She's talking about involving them in her affairs as whatever 'Oracle 2.0' may be. Charlie has no part in that.
janegray: (Default)

[personal profile] janegray 2011-03-11 06:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Charlie is Barbara's ward. She does have a right to know that the woman who was taking care of her like a mother is alive.
mrstatham: (Default)

[personal profile] mrstatham 2011-03-11 07:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Except we've seen nothing of her until now. And she's the biggest liability to this new operation Oracle has. If Cass doesn't have the right to know because of the burden, Charlie shouldn't know either, given she's the least mature person there.

Also, I think there's a difference between letting them know she's alive and letting them in on this new operation. Charlie might have the right to know that Barbara's alive, but involving someone like her in this new stage is a big mistake.
janegray: (Default)

[personal profile] janegray 2011-03-11 07:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Except we've seen nothing of her until now.

And that was a big mistake. One that pissed of a bunch of Barbara fans, who were enraged that Barbara was being portrayed as an abusive parent who abandoned the kid she was taking care of without even a mention. I'm glad it has finally been corrected.

If Cass doesn't have the right to know because of the burden, Charlie shouldn't know either, given she's the least mature person there.

Cass doesn't have the right to know because for some idiotic reason Didio hates her and the editors prevented Gail from using her. The burden line was just a handwave, since the characters can't break the fourth wall and say the real reason Cass isn't there.

I am pissed off that Cass is being fucked over. But rather than saying "character X has been fucked over by the editors, so character Y should be too", I'm glad at least character Y got some respect.
mrstatham: (Default)

[personal profile] mrstatham 2011-03-11 09:41 pm (UTC)(link)
"because for some idiotic reason Didio hates her and the editors prevented Gail from using her."

Prove this. Give me definitive evidence in black and white, showing that Didio is actually this insane moustache twirler out to piss off fans of one specific character, with his editors as underlings. If Didio hated her that much, he wouldn't have let her appear in the recent issue of Red Robin at all.
janegray: (Default)

[personal profile] janegray 2011-03-12 10:49 am (UTC)(link)
Her series was selling better than Robin's, yet it was canceled so she (a strict believer in the sanctity of life) could become a villainess who gleefully murders people in Robin's book.

The fans protested, saying that Beechen's writing was character assassination for Cass and she should be written by somebody else. Didio said that he's let Cass have a miniseries, and if it sold well, Cass could have her series back. He then picked Beechen as the writer of the mini, ensuring that Cass' fans, who had loudly declared to loathe Beechen's writing, wouldn't buy it. And when the mini predictably sold poorly, he was all "see? poor sales. That means that Cassandra is unpopular and can't have her own series!"

DC then proceeded to strip Cassandra of her Batgirl title. Which would have been ok if it had been done respectfully, but it wasn't, she just took the costume off with no explanation and disappeared. And the new Batgirl series never even mentioned her for over a year, despite the fact that Cass was the previous Batgirl, that Stephanie was her best friend, that Barbara was her mentor, and that fans were keeping asking what the heck had happened to her.

A while ago Fabian Nicieza was allowed to have Cass guest star for a few pages in one issue of Red Robin. If you ask me, that sounds more like throwing a tiny bone to the still protesting fans (who, a year later, still didn't know what the heck had happened to Cass), than proof that DC has nothing against Cass.

Gail simone said in her Twitter that she was going to include Cass here, but the editors told her that Cass has been labeled "hands off" and she couldn't use her. So Gail was forced to either not mention Cass at all, or find an excuse to justify Cass' absence from the story when, as others have already pointed out, it doesn't make any sense that she isn't there.



Now, that's plenty of evidence to me. If you still aren't convinced, we can only agree we disagree. In any case, Gail has stated that the editors prevented her from using Cass, so that's why Cass isn't there and Charlie is.
mrstatham: (Default)

[personal profile] mrstatham 2011-03-12 05:17 pm (UTC)(link)
It isn't evidence. You're just compiling a list of things that has happened to the character and then adding a dollop of your own thought on there. In the case of Beechen, it's not hate, it's a bad decision in both instances on Didio's behalf. In the case of her current lack of appearances - Would you like her to appear on demand anywhere and everywhere to sate your need for her to appear? Or would you prefer that they actually try and think things through until they have a clearer idea for her?

For all you know, DC told Gail 'hands off' regarding Cass because they like what Nicieza did and want more of that. But it's so much easier to be a pessimist and come up with bizarre ideas of a company 'hating' a character.

Oh, and as for the 'Cass as a villain' thing people keep on harping on about, I wish people would read the end of Cass' series a little more closely, given the note that ends on.
swatkat: knight - er, morgana - in shining underwear (Default)

[personal profile] swatkat 2011-03-12 01:10 pm (UTC)(link)
I assume that was hyperbole on [personal profile] janegray's part. Whatever it is, none of us have 'proof' of anything except beyond what the author of the title told us - that she would've liked to use Cassandra, and she couldn't because editorial asked her to keep her hands off the character. Or do you mean that we are to question the authenticity of her statement now?
mrstatham: (Default)

[personal profile] mrstatham 2011-03-12 05:24 pm (UTC)(link)
I wasn't questioning the authenticity of Simone's statement, I just find it ridiculous that people harp on about Didio and DC as a company 'hating' Cass. Sometimes it could just something as simple as writers not wanting to use Cass, frankly - Why should Miller have Steph flapping about Cass every five seconds when Steph knows Cass can look after herself? - or, you know, it could be that since the direction they decided upon for Cass last time - a direction that COULD have been perfectly viable but the fans retaliate with such spite that they fuck up the explanation of it with something the fans hated just as much - That they're actually taking their time in figuring out what to do.

'Hate' is a ridiculously strong word to throw about, and Janegray also ignores the fact that DC actually gave Cass something of a starring role in Outsiders even as that miniseries Didio 'specifically put Beechen on so it would fail' was going out. What Gail's saying is probably very true, but I don't see why it's necessary to be such pessimists over Cass' absence, right now.
swatkat: knight - er, morgana - in shining underwear (Default)

[personal profile] swatkat 2011-03-12 09:21 pm (UTC)(link)
'Hate' is a strong word, I agree. I don't think DC put Beechen on the mini so that it would fail - they put him on it so that he'd fix what he broke, and then, unfortunately, he broke it even more. What I do think has been seriously amiss on DC's part is the lack of actual communication and veiled 'we have big plans, we promissss', which - they should know by now - tends to unsettle fans.

[personal profile] ebailey140 2011-03-12 07:04 am (UTC)(link)
She is TERRIBLE when it comes to mentoring younger heroes. Something involving Stephanie and/or Charlie is going to go horribly wrong. It is SO obvious!

Steph's been doing great as Batgirl. She's even matured into a mentor/big sister role for Damian. As much as he tries to resist, she's made some groundway with him. Tim should take notes in how to properly be an older sibling and guide.

As for Charlie, it's more her personal relationship with Barbara that's the reason she's in the know, not her pretty much retired super hero identity as Misfit.
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)

[personal profile] sistermagpie 2011-03-12 03:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Tim should take notes in how to properly be an older sibling and guide.

It's apples and oranges. Stephanie isn't Damian's older sister. Tim is his older brother. And his hatred for him comes down to insecurities he and Damian has about their place in the family. Tim's the one person who is actually vulnerable to Damian's insults. (And Damian's actually threatened by Tim and not Stephanie.)

Sorry, I just hate the way Damian's crossed this line in some places into the woobie place where because he's socially inappropriate everyone's supposed to treat him well and with infinite patience. Not accusing you of that, I just see it everywhere.

Also Stephanie's book is far lighter in tone than Tim's so none of her relationships can get to too dark a place. Damian calls Stephanie fat. He tried to kill Tim.
junipepper: (jumplines)

[personal profile] junipepper 2011-03-12 06:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Stephanie isn't Damian's older sister. Tim is his older brother. And his hatred for him comes down to insecurities he and Damian has about their place in the family. Tim's the one person who is actually vulnerable to Damian's insults. (And Damian's actually threatened by Tim and not Stephanie.)

THIS.

[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2011-03-10 07:55 pm (UTC)(link)
"What is Oracle doing, now?"

A. Fighting cyber-crime with the Birds, but more anonymously.
B. Being Batman's operative in the VR "Internet 3.0."
mrstatham: (Default)

[personal profile] mrstatham 2011-03-10 08:17 pm (UTC)(link)
The biggest reason I dislike Oracle is because this basically sets her up for more of the same shit that she got involved in when Simone first started her run. Oracle is someone who sticks her nose in where it doesn't belong, frankly, and it gets her into trouble, just like it did when they ran afoul of Savant and then the Senator who turned out to be Cheshire's father.

Only this time, if Oracle steps into something too big for her and the Birds, who the Hell's she going to turn to? And who would help someone who's been this big a bitch and turned their backs on them?