Amazing Spider-Man #656

[cyberghostface]

So after Marla's death, Spidey has taken on a vow that no one will ever die under his watch. Just as he says that, a new villain called Massacre is holding a group of people hostage and has lined them up with explosives. To make a point, he's already killed one. His backstory is that a piece of shrapnel lodged its way into his brain, taking away his ability for empathy or morals.

Spider-Man gets shot by Massacre, leading him to build a new armored suit.

Meanwhile, Mayor Jonah in response to the tragedy has declared "no tolerance" for murderers and wants Massacre dead.

So Spider-Man arrives into the scene, and webs up the hostages. Massacre tells him that he's sealed their fate and sets off the detonator, only for Spidey to tell him that his new webbing is magnetic and has blocked the detonator's radio frequencies. Massacre asks him if the new webbing is bulletproof and proceeds to fire.



Massacre claims he has other hostages wired a block away but Spidey webs up his detonator, once again preventing him from blowing anyone up. Now powerless, Massacre apparently tries to commit suicide by going up to the window where the police are about to shoot him.

Comments

[espanolbot]

I agree with Aang and Katara's kid, Spider-man is an idiot.

New York in the Marvel universe has more superheroes per capita than anywhere else in the world, but still people die very day.

Saving people one at a time is admirable, but it's kind of impossible at the same time.

[aeolos_sakya]

I agree with Aang and Katara's kid, Spider-man is an idiot.

Can't unsee it now!

[icon_uk]

Somehow JJJ;s new reason for disliking Spider-Man just doesn't have the same punch to it as "He's a menace to society"

[starwolf_oakley]

It does seem like JJJ has an epiphany about Spider-Man in this story. "He doesn't do this for thrills or fame or some sort of Freudian guilt complex... He does it out of sheer naive stupidity!"

Still, magnetic webbing that can block radio-transitions? Nice! I wonder if it will work on stuff powered by brainwaves, like Doc Ock's tentacles. (Doesn't explain why the organic webbing went away after OMD, but if Quesada doesn't care, why should I?)

[fredneil.livejournal.com]

He created webbing that interferes with Doc Ock's tentacles so he can't control them back in ASM #90. If you know the issue, you know that didn't work out so well.

[eightleggedbeast]

I wish I had a macro of the Iron Lady announcing THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SOCIETY for every time someone mentions society here.

EVERYBODY LIVES!

[kirke_novak]

Spidey is The Doctor, akshully.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53CPuFgBK7E

[drmcninja]

Not digging the new threads, Spidey. Your mask is an ugly helmet, and the lines are... not flattering. I miss my red and blue.

[terrykun]

I'm not crazy about this particular look, but the idea of Peter coming up with Spider-suits for different tactical applications, when he has the benefit of prep-time, is pretty nifty.

[sherkahn]

With his scientific skill, it's actually about time.

Too bad it's nothing original so far... most are variations of the Iron Spider outfit (powers wise).

[drmcninja]

So do I. Theres a lot of room for the Parker brain to work with in different Spidey costumes. We know hes a genius, and the Scarlet Spider armor is actually pretty class. Id love to see him even just experimenting with new ideas and new armor.

[nezchan]

Seriously, I'd read a book that was nothing but him tooling around in the lab doing awesome science stuff. It would kick ass.

[terrykun]

Along with "HANK PYM - SCIENCE ADVENTURER!" ?

[lbd_nytetrayn]

Isn't that basically half of what the Fantastic Four's shtick is?

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

[halloweenjack]

The logic of your idea conflicts with the reality that they're probably doing this just to sell more copies (and possibly action figures, as well). It does make sense to have Pete have a few alternative costumes--at the very least, someone who travels through the air at high speed in NYC in the winter should have a decent cold-weather outfit, at least--but that wouldn't necessarily translate into that different of a look, so we get costume variations with these ugly-ass color schemes.

[darkknightjrk]

I think this is a "in case of emergency" costume. He'll be back in the red and blue next issue.

[thanekos]

it also does double duty as his "80s Sentai villain/90s Sentai grunt" variant.

[darkblade]

He still owes Toei some favors from that um thing...

[fredneil.livejournal.com]

I don't think the mayor actually has the authority to impose a death sentence on anyone.

[liara_shadowsong]

...That costume is damn ugly.

[eightleggedbeast]

So -- sorry, where did this magnetic armour come from?

[thanekos]

His job at Horizon Labs gives him access to the stuff of a super-science think tank, and since he's got the intelligence to make 'em..

(best part is that he's repurposed part of his anti-Hobgoblin stealth suit for some take on noise-cancellation headphones, meaning that he's now got his name on a patent in about six months. Which should help his resume once the status quo gets shook up again..)

[long_silence]

(You'd think having a book published would have helped his resume)

[stolisomancer]

To be fair, having a published book helps his resume as a photographer. It doesn't do much to help with his resume as a scientist or teacher.

[deepspaceartist]

I... actually kind of like this. I think the "Fuck what logic or facts say, I'm gonna save everyone around me anyways beacuse I'm a superhero!" Is the sort of attitude more heroes should have. It's not like he's saying that no-one's ever going to die in the city ever, he's saying that as soon as he get's involved in a situation, people stop dying. If this actually works out for him, I say it's about time we have more books where the superheroes are actually SUPERheroes, and the villains stop winning.

That said, this is post-OMD Spider-man, so I have my doubts about this working out for him.

[skalja]

I'm pretty sure this is Peter on the brink of some kind of breakdown. Which could be fun except Slott is so hit and miss for me...

[stolisomancer]

Yeah, I'm on the same page with you on Slott. This issue was really uneven, just like... every other issue Slott's written since "Big Time" started.

[tsunamiwombat]

Yeah, this does seem like the Manic behavior of an individual on the brink of a meltdown. Peter has ALWAYS gone 110% to save lives. I can't think of a Superhero that doesn't. Thats the goddamn point. Sure he's taking it to 11 now, batmanning it up with special gear and prep time, but...

It sounds like he's doing this more for himself then for any desire to help people.

[skalja]

I wouldn't say it's "for himself" so much as a grief reaction. A lot of people have died on his watch during the BND/OMD era, including several people he's known for years, most recently Marla Jameson. So he's trying to compensate for something he can't really compensate for.

[lonewolf23k]

I agree about the "No One Dies" attitude. That's something I want to see more heroes adopt, and I'm glad this story ended with Spidey able to prevent any more deaths.

[liliaeth]

my thought as well, the idea isn't bad, but this is BND, and nothing ever goes well for Spider-Man in this book.

[punishermax]

~Hulk kinda just, busts in the door~

SO, HULK HAVE TO ASK. IT NORMAL FOR MAYOR TO, YOU KNOW, PUBLICLY SUPER HERO IDIOT FOR NOT MURDERING PERSON IN COLD BLOOD? LIKE, DOES MAYOR YELL AT FIREMEN FOR NOT LETTING MAN WHO LEAVE CIGARETTE LIT BURN WITH HIS HOUSE? HULK ASSUME NEW YORK NORMAL CITY AND NOT MAD MAX STYLE NIGHTMARE ZONE WHERE DEATH IS PRESCRIPTION TO ALL WOES. THAT WOULD EXPLAIN YANKEES THOUGH. HULK MIGHT HAVE TO RESCIND RANT THERE.

ALSO ON HULK NEXT POINT. SPIDER MAN, WHY YOU DESIGN COSTUME SO THAT YOU LOOK LIKE GOTH ROBOCOP. HOLY SHIT HULK JUST THINK OF NEW MOVIE.

ALSO HULK MUST CONFESS TO STUPIDITY BUT HE ASSUME IT VERY BAD IDEA TO JUST, YOU KNOW, STAND IN FRONT OF BULLETS AND LET THEM RICOCHET OFF METAL BODY. IT SEEM VERY POSSIBLE THEY COULD REFLECT OFF YOU AND HIT PEOPLE BEHIND YOU. PHYSICS FUN BUT DANGEROUS AS WELL. HULK LEARN FROM BILL NYE. HE SCIENCE GUY.

ALSO, PETER, BRO HULK HATE BREAK IT TO YOU BUT HE PRETTY SURE YOU TRY TO NOT LET PEOPLE DIE BEFORE THIS MOMENT. HULK MEAN, JUST CAUSE YOU WANT SOMETHING REALLY BAD NOT MAKE IT SO. IT SUCK, BUT JESUS MAN, PEOPLE DIE. WE DEAL WITH BAD GUYS WHO CONTROL EVERY METAL EVER AND HULK HIMSELF DEAL WITH RED HULK WHICH LIKE DEALING WITH BIG DUMB 12 YEAR OLD WHO JUST DISCOVER LINKIN PARK. PEOPLE DIE FROM HIS RAGE. BUT YOU NOT SEE HULK BREAK DOWN EVERY TIME

IT LIKE, HULK TRY HARD TO NOT GET ANGRY AND BREAK WALLS. HE MAKE IT POINT TO IDENTIFY DOORS AT ALL TIMES AND MAKE SURE THEY IN REACH. HE FIGHT URGE TO SMASH INTO HOME DEPOT UNDER ASSUMPTION THAT, HEY IT HOME DEPOT THEY REBUILT EASY. BUT SOMETIMES HULK BREAK WALLS. IT SUCKS, BUT HULK MOVE ON. HULK NOT MAKE SOLEMN SWEAR TO NOT BREAK WALLS AND STAND ON ROOFTOP DRASTICALLY IN COSTUME THAT MAKE HIM LOOK LIKE DETROIT'S ONLY ROBOT EVANESCENCE FAN.

THAT DUMB. HULK NOT THAT WEIRD.

[mynondw]

I love all your posts. XD

[darkknightjrk]

To be fair, Hulk, this particular Mayor's brain does turn into tapioca by the mere mention of Spider-Man, so...

[nezchan]

The moment you said Bro Hulk, I wanted to see him in those sunglasses from Homestuck.

love this!

[pervymax]

and all the hulk rants

[funbox]

For the Bill Nye shoutout, Funbox douth declare this Hulk rant winning

[darrylayo]

Hulk for Mayor.

New Costume

[capt_satellite]

Yeah, this is just aggressively ugly. I like the overall lines of the suit, but the yellow piping and pinstripes are just awful. And it reeks of TRON.

You can see the effect they were going for on the final panel of the second page posted, with the yellow lines giving the full body the effect of a spider but it's far too much for way too little.

I'm hoping other artists can put a better spin on this, or that some of the funkier aspect get turned down a notch.

I can't begrudge the idea of a helmet, but the way it's rendered, especially in profile at the chin on the third page, second panel, and on the fourth page, just fails.

One of the classic Spider-man costume's best design choices, and the one that helps in storytelling with a masked character, has always been his teardrop-shaped eye slits....they adhere to the facial contours enough that, given just a little a bit of artistic license, they can convey so much expression. Even with the black "Secret Wars" costume, it didn't take much for the reader to read his facial expressions....or perhaps more accurately, project what the reader feels onto the otherwise featureless mask.

Honestly, the idea of Spider-man running around with no more protection that a spandex body suit has always bugged me a little. Batman took the common-sense move of more protective gear a quarter-century ago. I loved the idea from Miller's "The Dark Knight" that the black on yellow bat symbol was there to draw fire to a well-protected part of the costume....that great reveal when he's shot in the chest dangling from the helicopter, and gunfire blasts the bat-symbol off, revealing metallic bullet-proof panel underneath.

But worry not. Nobody throws away close of 50 years of brand identity for nothing.

[hoey]

Pick a color scheme and stick to it.

New costume

[big_daddy_d]

Looks like a Ronin knock off to be honest.

Re: New costume

[terrykun]

Does this mean Pete will try to copy Maya even further by walking in on Clint in the shower?

[proteus_lives]

Spidey-Tron.

[jetblack927]

I said that OH, so long ago...UGH, this is such a train wreck....





...Waitaminute....when the hell did J.J. become MAYOR?!?! Talk about art imitating life (Bloomberg does remind me of Jonah...)

[shadowpsykie]

sooo... spider-man snapped?

[cyberghostface]

Snapped a long time ago.

[rainspirit]

"They will look up and shout, 'Save us',

"And I'll whisper, 'Yes. I will. All of you.'"

[arilou_skiff]

That's... Pretty awesome.

[darkblade]

Yes, this stopping people from dying idea worked out so well for Anakin Skywalker.

[funbox]

Oh come on, at least he's already still in OMD/BRD, so its like there's no side darker for him to go! (I feel terrible now, *sigh*)

[nezchan]

So eventually Spidey's gonna come back from the Avengers and kick this clone or whatever out of his regular book, right?

[funbox]

I was thinking along the lines of the Ultimate Spiderman and friends(plus family) come in and just kick most of their 616 selves in the ass and talk some sense into them! I mean come on, when a person probably half or less then your age has a better sense of morals then you, your messed >:[

[aaron_bourque]

So this is still being stupid, huh? Thought so.

[mullon]

I really don't see how this is different from what he noramlly does. Unless he has some way of watching all of New York all of the time.

[fifthie]

Once again a comic book character is blessed with meta-awareness of the genre convention that villains can always escape from jail whenever the plot requires it, while remaining blind to the equally ridiculous genre convention that villains can always return from the dead whenever the plot requires it.

Ho hum.

[fifthie]

Re: the new suit, what kills me is how all the individual components are lifted from costumes that in isolation can be pretty much totally ace.

And then they're all thrown in the blender and turned into whaaaaaaaaaaatever the fuck that is.

[fifthie]

Like somewhere in the multiverse of all things that would or could be, there is totally, totally ballin' Spider-Man alt costume with that collar.

But this one sure as hell isn't it.

[mrstatham]

So I was thinking that, maybe, y'know, they could actually pull some interesting stories out of the J Jonah Jameson as Mayor gimmick, but clearly I was wrong.

As it is, Jonah comes across as even more ridiculous and idiotic as Post-OMD Spidey. Advocating the murder of someone in public without deciding to go through the usual procedures and routine? I can see his approval ratings spiralling down.

New Story

[nefrekeptah]

I have no idea what everyone's complaining about, as this was quite awesome.

Wait, no, sorry, I do know what everyone's complaining about. It's the same thing that everyone always complains about - "this takes place after OMD, so it sucks. No, I don't care how good the actual story is, it takes place after OMD, so obviously it must suck." Lord...

Anyway, I really liked what I saw here. Spidey stays true to his promise to not let anyone die, he does so great fashion, and he doesn't start killing his enemies like people were afraid of. I loved what I saw here, and I really like the art style here (costume's a different story, but eh -it'll grow on me).

Re: New Story

[cyberghostface]

Wait, no, sorry, I do know what everyone's complaining about. It's the same thing that everyone always complains about - "this takes place after OMD, so it sucks. No, I don't care how good the actual story is, it takes place after OMD, so obviously it must suck." Lord...

Yeah, that's exactly why for the last two issues in a row I was giving them praise.

Re: New Story

[nefrekeptah]

Yes you were, and it was a very nice change of pace, thanks for that.

And - forgive me, I can't quite tell how you meant that line (sarcasm doesn't translate well on the computer screen) so if your were being serious, then once again thank you, it was a nice change of pace. And if you were being sarcastic, well, you weren't one of those people, so that line wasn't directed at you

Re: New Story

[midnightvoyager]

...Except I don't like it for other reasons? Down to the fact that I actually don't like the art much, something hard to define about it bothers me.

The pseudoscience bugs me (more than usual), the entire way Spider-man is acting bugs me (hard to see this as heroic when it seems like he's snapping), costume bugs me (in a way that I am not liable to get used to), JJ bugs me...

[janegray]

Spidey has taken on a vow that no one will ever die under his watch. Just as he says that, a new villain called Massacre is holding a group of people hostage and has lined them up with explosives. To make a point, he's already killed one.

Pretty short-lived vow, then.

His backstory is that a piece of shrapnel lodged its way into his brain, taking away his ability for empathy or morals.

Was he there to rob those people, or did he just want to kill them?

Because if he just wanted to kill them, the backstory doesn't work. Most sociopaths in the world refrain from killing people for crap and giggles simply because they don't want to go to jail. Empathy and morals have nothing to do with self-preservation.

[twigcollins]

Pretty short-lived vow, then.

I was about to say.

[cyberghostface]

Was he there to rob those people, or did he just want to kill them?

I honestly don't know what he wanted.

Vow

[nefrekeptah]

Pretty short-lived vow, then.

He wasn't there when it happened, so they didn't die under his watch. He's not that obsessed.

Re: Vow

[janegray]

If by "under his watch" he only means "while I am present", then his whole little speech to JJJ is bullshit.

Jonah said that Massacre would get out and murder more people. Spidey replied that people wouldn't die, because when Massacre gets out Spidey will be there. But since it's physically impossible for Spidey to immediately get to Massacre after the break out, that means that Massacre would have plenty of time between his break out and Spidey's arrival to murder people, therefore people would indeed die just like Massacre's first hostage did.

I'm not saying that Spidey should have let Massacre die. Putting aside the obvious "superheroes don't kill" matter, you can just bet that if Spidey had let the villain die, Jonah would have been all ZOMG YOU MENACE!!!111. Spidey did the right thing here.

I'm saying that this specific justification for saving Massacre is stupid, because Spidey's vow doesn't mean squat if it only counts when he is physically present and Massacre can murder people when Spidey isn't there. And I'm saying that his vow doesn't even make any sense because saving people is what Spidey has been doing ever since he became a superhero, it would be like Batman making a vow that "from now onwards, I will fight the Joker!"

And again, Massacre's motivations don't make any sense either, because sociopathy doesn't comport a lack of self-preservation. He wasn't a character, he was a forced plot device.

I understand that you are frustrated by people's hatred for post-OMD Spidey. But your frustration is blinding you to the fact that people DO have very valid reasons for hating it. You keep saying that we are complaining just because we can't let go of that one event, but I've already listed several perfectly legitimate reason to think that this story is a poor one.

Re: Vow

[nefrekeptah]

What makes you think my response to the above post had anything to do with my being sick of OMD?

I was just pointing out that people dying somewhere else doesn't affect Spidey's vow. If it did, then Spider-Man would have to have given up his vow the moment some poor guy got caught in a car crash, or have been overwhelmed with guilt for failing to live up to his vow the moment he learned Massacre killed someone. Obviously he did neither of these things, so he's not counting it when he's not there.

Yes, his statement to Jonah is a stupid statement; I think that's rather the point. Peter recently went through a minor mental crises when Jameson's wife died, deciding that he had failed far too often to save lives and vowing to never fail again. The way this story is going, it looks like it ends with Peter having to accept that this is impossible; matter how hard he tries, he can't save everybody all the time. It's less "Batman vowing to fight the Joker" and more "Batman vowing to never let the Joker kill anyone ever again" - nice sentiment, but it's not going to happen. And seeing as how Massacre tries to commit suicide at the end, he doesn't have much in the way of self-preservation either.

Yes, there are people who do have legitimate beefs with this; I was overgeneralizing when I posted earlier, and I apologize for that. But by the same token, me responding to another person's criticism of Spider-Man doesn't automatically mean that I think they're "complaining just because we can't let go of that one event."

[pyrotwilight]

"That's the new rule."

"So...you were what? Not giving a damn before and letting people die? You menace!"