Ultimate Avengers vs New Ultimates #3

[cyberghostface]

To be quite honest, I really don't know what's going on in this series. Basically (I think?) Nick Fury is a traitor doing super soldier experiments with the Chinese and essentially starts a conflict between the Avengers and the New Ultimates. 

Nick Fury enlists the help of the Punisher (who will get free reign to essentially kill everyone in the prison he's currently incarcerated at) in exchange for his help. Or something.

Later, when Captain America is beating the crap out of Fury...

Comments

[merrickm]

This is either confusing storytelling or a really slow bullet.

[q99]

Really slow bullet.

[big_daddy_d]

It couldn't be any slower than if you were to name the gun, The Turtle.

[blackruzsa]

I vote really slow bullet, because seriously, by the time Frank got to the "wh" of his "what the hell", Cap should have already been... capped.

[q99]

I'm pretty sure Cap should be shot before the bullet's ejected as far as it has.

Let alone 'watch someone swing past and say a whole sentence in response'!

Heck, should that bullet even hurt?

[blackruzsa]

It should have just bounced. I'm pretty sure even a normal bullet wouldn't have torn Spiderman so much.

[freezer]

Pete isn't bulletproof. Not to mention sniper round. It wouldn't cause the ludicrous gibs we see here, but Spidey would go down leaking.

[blackruzsa]

I meant it wouldn't make such a.... well, violently splattering hole, but yeah it would definitely do some damage.

And at the rate its going, it should've just bounced off. What is timing.

[cyberghostface]

There was an issue of USM where Spidey got shot by a policeman. He was wounded pretty bad and had to go to the hospital.

[big_daddy_d]

Ok considering that this is going on while the Sinister Six are going after Parker's family, I'm wondering if it'll be a case of Peter's death being faked..although..hard to argue against a bullet outright hitting him...and considering this is the Ultimate U...yeaa..when they say someone's going to die, they fucking mean it here.Thus have not looked forward to this.

[flint_marko]

To be quite honest, I really don't know what's going on in this series. Basically (I think?) Nick Fury is a traitor doing super soldier experiments with the Chinese and essentially starts a conflict between the Avengers and the New Ultimates.

It looks like both both sides have been set up to think the other side is a traitor.

[big_daddy_d]

Considering the storyline as a whole is called Death of Spider-Man, can't help but wonder if The Spider is the one pulling the strings. Haven't seen him since Ultimate Avengers 2. Not to mention he's apparently psychic and Hannibal Lector-esque.

[mrstatham]

Okay, I get the concept of the 'noble sacrifice' and all, and this drops a really nice guilt-blob in UItimate-Cap's lap, given he's largely been ragging on Spidey, as of late, but... Really, what's to stop the Punisher just squeezing off another round?

Also, way to go on making the readers have to buy TWO seperate series to see what happens, Marvel.

[darkknightjrk]

To be fair, from what I understand we see the same events from Peter's perspective in Ultimate Spider-Man.

[cyberghostface]

Yeah, they said it's not necessary to get both books. Both of them interlock but they're also stand-alone.

[valtyr]

It's a huge guilt-blob for Fury, too - Fury is very protective towards Peter.

As for another round, Cap is now aware he's being shot at and has his shield, so.

[shadowpsykie]

i still hate the ultimate verse... aside from Spider-man and atleast this holds true here, (its odd because i like the regular verse and hate spider-man in it...)

i just don't think UPeter should have sacrificed himself for UCap. Our cap, yes, not this one, this one just seems like a waste...

[valtyr]

Ult Peter has a huge hero worship crush on Cap. It's really cute.

[schala_kid]

Peter having a crush on Cap is a constant on almost any universe.

[schala_kid]

Ult Cap is a bit of a jerk but he's not a fucking creep like Ult Hank or Ult Bruce, he's still a decent person (if you don't count the Ult Cap series, whoever made that just decided to make him a xenophobic douchebag).

But he is a good person, take the moments when he's not on the job especially when he is with Bucky and Gail. But I agree that he doesn't really compare to regular Steve, I think because he lacks his humility and harsh life experience from being an orphan and he's more about the battle and doesn't think he has the responsibility of being a symbol or that he has to inspire anyone.

Oh and Ultimate Thor and Tony aren't jerks, as a matter in fact I think they are the most stable of the their group (and boy oh boy if Tony is one of the most stable people in your team then you seriously need to check yourself).

[valtyr]

if you don't count the Ult Cap series, whoever made that just decided to make him a xenophobic douchebag

Oh thank you thank you, I looked up reviews after I read it and CBR was calling it a 'thoughtful story' with 'subtle characterisation' and I was LOLWAT.

I think because he lacks his humility and harsh life experience from being an orphan and he's more about the battle and doesn't think he has the responsibility of being a symbol or that he has to inspire anyone.

I don't think that's entirely fair, though - I think Ult Steve was orphaned when he signed up, and 616 Steve was just about an adult when his mother died. Ult Steve also walked with a cane and was bullied as a child. He's definitely harsher and more ruthless than 616 Steve - but his universe, his context, is much harsher. I think you're right in that he doesn't see himself as a symbol, but I think hedoes still have a great sense of the responsibility he has as America's only super soldier (as far as he knows). He's utterly relentless in his pursuit of what he perceives to be his duty.

[schala_kid]

Ult Steve wasn't orphaned he had his parents and his brother Douglas, before he enlisted, he also had Bucky and Gail. When he arrived in the present day Fury told him what happened to all of them and how they died, including the nephew he never knew (drug overdose) and told him that his only known surviving family member was his niece who was married and had family of her own.

616 Steve's dad was an alcoholic who died when he was a child, his mother was sickly and she died of pneumonia when he was a teenager (early teens since he mentions he was sent to the orphanage in Bru's run and he's shown as being a kid in Reborn).

I'm not saying that 616 Steve's life was harsher (you can't compare people's misfortunes really) but Ult Steve didn't have the same experiences as him. 616 Steve pretty much suffered abandonment at an early age and while he didn't use a cane he suffered disability from being sickly ( this isn't really elaborated enough which sometimes pisses me off).

I think you're right in that he doesn't see himself as a symbol, but I think hedoes still have a great sense of the responsibility he has as America's only super soldier (as far as he knows). He's utterly relentless in his pursuit of what he perceives to be his duty.

Totally agree, he does have that sense of responsibility and takes pride on what he is. He also takes his mission seriously and will fuck up anyone who gets in his way. But really I just like that he's very different from 616 Steve, like you know if some random defenseless punk goes and yells at them they would both react differently.

[valtyr]

Good Lord, you're right - I can't believe I forgot that. (Especially as I used to know that.) Weird we never see anything about them apart from that, really. The orphanage in 616 was a Brubaker retcon, yes?

Not sure I'd characterise parental death as abandonment, though.

I think the two Caps have very different roles in their respective universes and both have quite a realistic view on those roles, and take them very seriously. I like that they're very different too. :)

I will say this

[big_daddy_d]

If Spidey is really going to die here..then I say this.Mayday better be in either Gwen, MJ, or maybe even Kitty's belly! I want Ultimate Spider-Girl!..And hopefully she doesn't succumb to the dickery that lies within this universe.

Re: I will say this

[pyrotwilight]

Or all three. The Illegitimate Spider-girl's sounds catchy don't it?

Re: I will say this

[big_daddy_d]

More like awkward. Especially when you think of their moms having to tell them stories about their father..and how the odd timing of being concieved.

Re: I will say this

[espanolbot]

Hrrm, they they did imply that MJ and Peter might have done it recently...

Re: I will say this

[speedingtortoise]

Really? I don't recall seeing anything like that from the USM issues that I've read recently (but then again, I am sometimes horribly oblivious). Could you provide scans perhaps, or a description of the scene in question?

[valtyr]

Totally called that Spidey would be taking a bullet for Cap! I've been finding his interaction with the Ultimates soul-crushingly adorable. I hope he's going to live.

[skalja]

It would be such a horribly depressing end for the series if he didn't. But I'm kinda skeptical they'd do that.

[valtyr]

I'm wondering if he'll quit being Spider-Man and do something else? Tony keeps offering him jobs.

[filkertom]

Wouldn't Spidey have had way more time to snag the gun out of the Punisher's hands with a web line?

Or just web him into a cocoon?

Or land on his back and beat the crap out of him?

[halloweenjack]

That's not how one of the most famous and successful writers in comics rolls.

[valtyr]

It's not unreasonable he could be swinging towards the Cap-Fury fight and catch sight of Frank about to take the shot, in which case continuing his swing and letting go at the right point to dive onto Cap is a lot quicker than changing direction and swinging towards Frank.

Unfortunately the art's confusing - the cars keep moving from panel to panel. However, it seems that Frank is a decent amount further away from Cap than Spider-Man is. (Also not sure where Spider-Man's webline is anchored, as they're on a bridge.)

This also ties in with what Cap was telling Peter in Ultimate Spider-Man - that Spidey is young and his decision-making process is pretty impulsive, and unless he learns to plan better, someone will get killed.

[shanejayell]

Uh, yeah.

Marvel and/or Bendis?

Physics don't work that way. (Or just bad art.)

[akodo_rokku]

This is Millar.

So.

Yeah.

[speedingtortoise]

I got a glimpse of the Ultimate Spiderman point of view of this scene, and unless my eyes mislead me, Spiderman's actions were a lot less physics-defying

Spidey saw Frank about to shoot when he himself was closer to Cap, so he did what he could to try and save Cap by knocking him out of the way

But I could be mistaken. That tends to happen to me a lot ; )

[bradhanon]

Amen. Like you say, it could just be badly inept panel design, but my first thought was "Hey Millar, physics called. It said fuck you."

[schala_kid]

Cap is so going to fucking guilt-trip and both him and Fury are going to kill the motherfucking daylights out of Frank. Sure the professional thing would be to count this as a tragedy but considering how close to Peter Fury was, and how Ultimate Cap is not professional (and he takes the death of soldiers and and other combatants on the field very seriously) yeah Frank is so going to get it.

If Pete survives, Ult Steve is so going to train the fuck out of him (probably be a bit protective) make him do a lot of hard things so he would want to quit but once Peter goes through all of them he's going to be mighty proud.

[sethgray]

And by mighty proud, you mean erection.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

So...Spider-Man dies/gets seriously wounfded to save Captain America...'s kneecaps.

Now that's drama!

[lonewolf23k]

Y'know, this story is called the Death of Spider-Man...

...Nobody ever said it was the Death of Peter Parker. He might make it out with crippling injuries, leaving him alive, but unable to continue as Spider-Man.

[equinox216]

I'll say this for Frank: he can shoot the SHIT out of one of Aunt May's jam sandwiches.

[joeyconqueso]

Not to mention that bottle of V8