thehefner: (Default)
thehefner ([personal profile] thehefner) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2011-04-27 12:31 pm

Brightest Day finale, featuring the return(?) of an old favorite. Kinda. Maybe?

So the final issue of Brightest Day came out, wherein we get the grand reintroduction of Swamp Thing to the DCU! Except... not exactly. And I'm really not sure how to feel about this.

Scans from Brightest Day #24, which came out today.

So as we saw in the last issue, the black evil force dealie stuff was using Swamp Thing as the dark avatar, whereas the White Champion was selected to be Alec Holland. Not Swamp Thing, mind you, but the dessicated, crunchy corpse of Alec Holland. The White Lantern recaps his death, and makes an important distinction:

As we see the big, giant, evil Dark Avatar, the Lantern says, "BUT IT WAS ONLY SWAMP THING." At this point, my eyebrows are raised. "Only?" But okay, I read on, seeing the various heroes battle Dark Swampy, while the White Lantern explains its grand plan to Deadman, and why Aquaman, J'onn, Firestorm, and the Hawks were converted into Water, Earth, Fire, and Air elementals:

W... wait. Is anyone else getting the impression here that Johns is saying that Swamp Thing was just a husk that took on imprinted memories, but wasn't actually an individual creature in its own right? Maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but wait, see what happens after Alec Holland is officially brought back to life by the White Lantern:

Yeah, he has no memories of being Swamp Thing, because he never was. So while the vines wrap around him and he DOES become Swamp Thing, he's--for all intents and purposes--and entirely different character. In fact, I'm getting the implication that now he's MORE of a character than Swamp Thing was before. Which, it's worth noting, is the monster that Holland!Thing is fighting now, as he definitely states his own identity:

And after the battle is over (spoiler alert! The day is saved), you'll note that Holland doesn't know any of these characters:

So is Swamp Thing back? Not really. This isn't Swamp Thing, it's Alec Holland as the NEW Swamp Thing. Unless he somehow merged his consciousness with the Swamp Thing's--and if you've read this issue, please let me know if that's what happened and I missed it, but the "Do I... know you?" seems to indicate that he hasn't merged with Swamp Thing's memories--then he has NO history with Abby Arcane, or Matt Cable, or even Constantine. On one hand, I suppose this is a way to make the DC-centric Swampy series new-reader-friendly or something. On the other hand, doesn't this kinda piss all over what writers have done with the character from Moore onward?

This is my first time in a long while that I've hastily thrown together a post for a brand new issue. Please let me know if I've screwed up at all with spoilers or anything. Bat-Apologies in advance.
lencannon: shy guy (Default)

[personal profile] lencannon 2011-04-27 04:50 pm (UTC)(link)
They've made this seem so much more complicated than it is.

1. The old swamp thing was a plant/earth elemental with the memories of a dead human, Alec Holland. This made him more sympathetic to humanity than others like him.

2. They raised the dead Alec Holland and gave him plant elemental powers to try and recreate the corrupted Swamp Thing.
cainofdreaming: b/w (Default)

[personal profile] cainofdreaming 2011-04-27 04:55 pm (UTC)(link)
If they messed Abby's love life again I'm going to need a hammer. Perhaps an Asgardian one.
ravenous_raven: Alfred, Batman's butler, saying "Heh." (Alfred "Heh")

[personal profile] ravenous_raven 2011-04-27 05:02 pm (UTC)(link)
...and by hammer you mean your manhood? (I can't be the only one who thought of that!)

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protogarrett: (Default)

[personal profile] protogarrett 2011-04-27 05:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Now he just has to wait a year before he gets his stint in a short lived nearly randomly composed Justice League line-up that no one will remember.
thanekos: Yoshikage Kira as Kosaku Kawajiri, after the second arrow. (Default)

[personal profile] thanekos 2011-04-27 05:01 pm (UTC)(link)
" Now he thinks he's Nekron. "

and now I'm imagining Evil Star and his space science gremlins doing their version of, ah.. the autopsy. It works so well.
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)

[personal profile] thatnickguy 2011-04-27 05:01 pm (UTC)(link)
"Hey kids, did you like those stories told by that Alan Moore chap?

Well SCREW THAT NOISE, 'cause we're gonna undo all that and make that well-developed character (the Not Alec Swamp Thing) into a cliche, empty villain so we can bring Swamp Thing back proper!"
bewareofgeek: (Crazy)

[personal profile] bewareofgeek 2011-04-27 05:41 pm (UTC)(link)
That's OK... Geoff Johns will use those stories as the inspiration for a Green Lantern crossover.

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ravenous_raven: Combo headshot of Cass Cain, Steph Brown, and Babs Gordon, the 3 Batgirls, "Bow to the Goddammned Batgirls" in a corner (Default)

[personal profile] ravenous_raven 2011-04-27 05:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Bat-Apologies in advance.

There are no such things as Bat-Apologies. Batman never apologizes. :*

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jcbaggee: Jesus (Default)

[personal profile] jcbaggee 2011-04-27 05:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Swamp Thing was an elemental who absorbed memories of Alec Holland.

When Nekron showed up, Swamp Thing absorbed those memories; by all account, what they're fighting here IS the husk of Swamp Thing. The Swamp Thing we knew died when Nekron's persona took it over.

The only way to save Earth was to connect Alec Holland with Swamp Thing.

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jcbaggee: Jesus (Default)

[personal profile] jcbaggee 2011-04-27 05:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Also, in all honesty, I'm surprised no one is talking about the last page. That was a much bigger surprise to me.

I'll let someone else post it here, but if you're dying to know, the spoiler is here.

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[identity profile] 2011-04-27 05:46 pm (UTC)(link)
...why the freakin' hell is DC reverting Swamp Thing to his original concept? Seriously, what the hell?
fifthie: tastes the best (Default)

[personal profile] fifthie 2011-04-27 07:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Johns has finally progressed from obsession to outright mania
ext_395944: (Default)

[identity profile] 2011-04-27 05:49 pm (UTC)(link)
There's the Vertigo Swamp Thing and there's the new DC Swamp Thing.

In my head, everything that ever happened to Moore's version still happened, but it's a different continuity. So there's a Vertigo Swamp Thing still out there, Tefe and Abby and all the stuff that matters and then...

...There's this. So we'll see what happens.

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[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2011-04-27 05:51 pm (UTC)(link)
"On the other hand, doesn't this kinda piss all over what writers have done with the character from Moore onward?"

I don't see how it would--this isn't saying that what happened in Swamp Thing in the past didn't happen, they're just taking it in a new direction. Hell, if they bring some of the other characters back along with Constantine, this will probably make for some more interesting stories--like, what happens when Abby finds out that two of her lovers have kinda mixed and melded together?

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misterbug: (Default)

'He Thinks He's Nekron'.

[personal profile] misterbug 2011-04-27 06:02 pm (UTC)(link)
My instantaneous reaction? Could Be Worse...
misterbug: (Default)

[personal profile] misterbug 2011-04-27 06:05 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm disturbed by the possibility that he will be able to take off his Swamp Thing appearance and walk around. That's not Swampy. That's not Him at all.

The idea of 'Swamp Thing, White Lantern' is just too ridiculous even to discuss.

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crabby_lioness: (Default)

[personal profile] crabby_lioness 2011-04-27 06:09 pm (UTC)(link)
First reaction: I feel sick.

Second reaction: this pisses all over the Parliament of Trees.
ian_karkull: (Default)

[personal profile] ian_karkull 2011-04-27 06:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Well... That made absolutely no sense. Comics, everybody!

My kneejerk reaction would be decrying John's for pissing all over Moore's work and retconning the hell out of it so he can have a few more toys in his sandbox, but I'm just much too bored and a little bit saddened by it to care.

It's kind of sad because Swampy not being Holland was what made the character great. The reader could see him learn and grow throughout the series and watch him become his very own unique being in the process. I really felt that much closer to him throughout his journey.
Swampy "defeated" the Primal Darkness precisely because he was, in a sense, a newborn. Unsure of himself and the world he lived in, but also completely free of prejudice. Alec Holland never could've done that.

On a personal level, saying that that Swamp Thing was merely an empty husk that could be overtaken by anyone and not a person in his own right seems to invalidate that journey and sullies the memorey a little. And I can't really see what yet another Middle-aged White Dude -albeit a dead one- could possibly bring to the table.

Alas, at least it leaves the possibility open for some writer to do something potentially awesome with a much underused character.

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[personal profile] ex_trafalgar217 2011-04-27 07:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Awww Boston and Dove. ;;

Neat stuff.

[personal profile] long_silence 2011-04-27 07:35 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm just disappointed that they killed Kendra to bring back Shayera. And then they killed Shayera again.

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aeolos_sakya: Aeolos Sakya (Default)

[personal profile] aeolos_sakya 2011-04-27 07:59 pm (UTC)(link)
As much as there are some weird things and some of them probably annow the crap out of people, I'm just sad about what had to happen to ressurrect Holland. I should've seen that coming but... damn.

[personal profile] kd_the_movie 2011-04-27 07:59 pm (UTC)(link)
" he thinks he's Nekron"

Nekron!Swamp Thing: "I THINK IM BIG MEECH! LARRY HOOVER!...."

[identity profile] 2011-04-27 09:37 pm (UTC)(link) it even remotely possible to figure out what the hell has been going on in Brightest Day without having an encyclopedic knowledge of the last 30 years of DC continuity?

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silverzeo: (Default)

[personal profile] silverzeo 2011-04-27 10:09 pm (UTC)(link)
DC seems to make it clear that clones of people, even with the same memory, are not the same person. I mean, Earth-3 Alex Luthor came back in the JLA Omega arc and he had a happen ending, even though he started Infinite Crisis and turn Superboy Prime into an insane killer... but he got the better ending while Prime is left unknown... but how did Nekron imprint the Green?
big_daddy_d: (Default)

[personal profile] big_daddy_d 2011-04-28 12:03 am (UTC)(link)
This was underwhelming to be honest. After all that, and this was the endgame?
baxter2814: Reed Richards is starting to get an idea... (reed goggles)

[personal profile] baxter2814 2011-04-28 02:30 am (UTC)(link)
*sigh* Okay, yeah, chucking out continuity makes it easier to understand. Fine.

The problem is that people don't only read whatever's coming out right now. They also read old stuff, and this is just going to make it more confusing. Just my first thoughts, while keeping my Alan Moore fangirl tied down.
pyrotwilight: (Default)

[personal profile] pyrotwilight 2011-04-28 03:19 am (UTC)(link)
Reactions from issue...

Wait, how did Nekron "imprint" onto Swamp Thing? The way they make it look you'd think he changes identities on the fly all the time or something.

So "failing" his mission just leaves Hawk as he is? That's it?

Wait was the Entity trying to have Boomerang actually kill Dove instead of Boston?

Why did the four (Firestorm, Martian Manhunter, the Hawks, Aquaman) turn into little "Elementals"? Swamp Thing didn't need their help to kill Dark Thing and they could've slowed it down without being "Elementals" and aren't Elementals supposed to NOT be able to affect one another? I think they made a point of that when Firestorm met Swamp Thing a previous time.

Why didn't the Entity just have the heroes find Dark Thing and have its connection severed BEFORE it arose? I mean it'd take like one Green Lantern and something else. Or any one of the light based heroes like Halo or Dr. Light apparently. Since it's not like Swamp Thing is ALL plant life or plants wouldn't have been able to exist before Alec Holland accidentally made him.

Swamp Thing just healed all the world's plant life? When did it get damaged in the first place?

Oh well. I guess Brightest Day worked well for a six issue mini. What? How many issues? Seriously? 25 issues?
lascoden: Anarky (Default)

[personal profile] lascoden 2011-04-28 07:06 am (UTC)(link)
I think the bad Swamp Thing was connected to all plant life, they needed the good one to replace the connection.

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jlroberson: (Default)

[personal profile] jlroberson 2011-04-30 06:18 am (UTC)(link)
Meh. The way Johns pulled this right out of his ass near the end of the last issue meant I already didn't care, made even more an issue by the gratuitous and momentary resurrection of Holland here. (I felt sorry for the guy. From his perspective, one minute he was in his lab, getting blown up, the next eaten by some enormous monster he's never seen, 40 years later. That must be what being Billy Pilgrim feels like)

I did win the betting pool, I see, on who gets it in the hand this time.(Hawk)
jlroberson: (Default)

[personal profile] jlroberson 2011-04-30 06:18 am (UTC)(link)
PS--Also, this Holland thinks his wife is still alive. Poor SOB.

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