Date: 2011-04-27 07:49 pm (UTC)
shanejayell: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shanejayell
Uhm... was Superman EVER an official US Citizen? I mean, where was this established pray tell?

Date: 2011-04-27 07:54 pm (UTC)
toby_wan_kenobi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] toby_wan_kenobi
Presumably since he was raised in Kansas by two parents who found him there - it's not like babies that get dropped off at hospitals aren't American citizens because nobody knows who their parents are. It's a logical assumption.

Superman giving up his citizenship, on the other hand, is kind of dumb as a gesture. And kind of antithetical to his origin, too.

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Date: 2011-04-27 07:53 pm (UTC)
divi_d: Very old drawing of my old feline OC Rashida.  (Still my avatar of choice, though :-p.) (Default)
From: [personal profile] divi_d
""Truth, Justice, and the American Way" -- It's not ENOUGH anymore."

I APPROVE!

Date: 2011-04-27 07:57 pm (UTC)
toby_wan_kenobi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] toby_wan_kenobi
Depends on how you construe the American way. Being an idealist, I go with "liberty and justice for all", but I know that I'm in the minority, and I understand why.

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Date: 2011-04-27 08:05 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kd_the_movie
Hunhh. Im not only surprised that they used actual real life Iran and its (somewhat) current sociopolitical climate but that they didn't just do a lazy summation of the Israel/Palestinian conflict with proxys (as that seems to be the common thing to do when commenting on the Middle East).

Date: 2011-04-27 08:05 pm (UTC)
valtyr: (kate and eli)
From: [personal profile] valtyr
Wow, this is... rather well done. I can sympathise with him a lot, here.

Date: 2011-04-27 08:06 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
This seems to be intent on the same sort of thing that the Silver Age took in it's stride, Superman was officially a citizen of the world (Well, the nations comprising the United Nations awarded him that freedom)

Date: 2011-04-27 08:10 pm (UTC)
damianwayne: (Default)
From: [personal profile] damianwayne
If you're disgusted with the "American Way" then show them how to act by setting an example. Taking your toys and going home isn't exactly the moral high ground, Supes. Also, can't wait to see how writers handle Clark Kent suddenly deporting himself.

Rubbish.

Date: 2011-04-27 08:21 pm (UTC)
divi_d: Very old drawing of my old feline OC Rashida.  (Still my avatar of choice, though :-p.) (Default)
From: [personal profile] divi_d
I don't think "disgust" has anything to do with it. At least from what I'm reading here, the issue is Superman is trying to dissociate himself from ANY country because it makes other countries more likely to get pissed off with his actions, and the country he associates himself with more likely to get flack for his actions (in this case, America being accused of an act of war).

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Date: 2011-04-27 08:10 pm (UTC)
jaybee3: Nguyen Lil Cass (Default)
From: [personal profile] jaybee3
One would think that if Superman had forsook his US Citizenship (which Clark still has so it makes no sense anyway) in response to the US Military under Sam Lane, with the expressed permission of the DCU President (who gave Luthor his pardon for the "bomb", remember) committing genocide against 99% of the remaining members of his species (including Kal-El's aunt and uncle) I think that would have made more of a statement and actually given the New Krypton story - which DC wants us to forget - more of a lasting impact (and maybe get people in the US to reflect that Sam Lane wasn't a "hero" - which is how most of Earth sees him according to James Robinson and Sterling Gates).

Instead we get the idea that Supes giving up his citizenship is as arbitrarily done as his decision to walk across America because some crazy lazy slapped him.

Date: 2011-04-27 08:12 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] vitruvian23
One wonders if his promise 'not to engage' would have extended to standing by if the guard had in fact opened fire on the protestors, or if he would have done his usual thing of intercepting the bullets with hands and heat vision, and perhaps melting the firing pins on the guns.

Date: 2011-04-27 08:22 pm (UTC)
fifthie: tastes the best (Default)
From: [personal profile] fifthie
I generally kind of dislike this sort of direct reference to real-world events in comics because it always comes across as dissonant with, well, a lot of things.

The last couple panels, about the soldier being brave, that was a really good, perceptive bit, I liked that.

Date: 2011-04-27 08:32 pm (UTC)
divi_d: Very old drawing of my old feline OC Rashida.  (Still my avatar of choice, though :-p.) (Default)
From: [personal profile] divi_d
I agree. When you reference real world events but mix in super-beings, it does tend to come off as a little weird. It also means you have to be careful to REALLLLY do your research, because if you get things wrong it can potentially be VERY offensive to those involved.

On the other hand, creating new things to function as METAPHORS for real world issues, that I like. It can still be done offensively, but it's a lot harder, and you're also given a lot more creativity to explore the situation, hypothetical variants on the situation, and how the presence of superheroes might change things.

Date: 2011-04-27 08:29 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
This is a decision that makes a lot of sense. I hope they make Diana follow suit—I never understood why an Amazon diplomat of a wonder island with Greek roots should dress in the American flag. No particular beef with America, it’s just that I would enjoy seeing a little more of… you know, [i]other[/i] cultures represented in the big tier. Like Greece.

Date: 2011-04-27 09:24 pm (UTC)
ian_karkull: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ian_karkull
They've unsuccessfully tried to explain that one away many, many times now. I'm kind of hoping the pants stick around because without the star-spangled panties, the red and gold eagle could easily be declared the Themiscyran national symbol (which in my head it already is.)

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Date: 2011-04-27 08:31 pm (UTC)
baxter2814: dick says you suck, dc! (nightwing accuses)
From: [personal profile] baxter2814
How do I hate this run? Let me count the ways....

Okay, I can't. There's just so much wrong I can't even articulate it all. So let my icon speak for me while I just rant instead:

Please, please, please for the love of God stop this bullshit. Remember when Superman just ran around stopping floods and fighting supervillains? Remember when he hung around Metropolis unless he was really needed elsewhere? Remember when he really, really, really didn't like to ever do or say anything political ever? When he wouldn't even comment on Luthor's election? And what's this citizenship bullshit? Of course he's an American. His home is Metropolis. REMEMBER???? Metropolis, as in, America. He's not some figurehead for the world, floating impersonal and objectively over the atmosphere. He's just a superhero. People in the DC universe don't have the same idiotically hyperbolic notions about Superman being some generic "ideal" or some lazy philosophical notion of Costumed Space Jesus that we have in real life. This is just crap.

I really, really hate that people are trying to use Superman as anything other than "random superhero who just so happens to be more popular than everyone else". Just STOP. It makes him into a generic pool of free floating ideas instead of a character, which is the excuse stupid people use for not liking Superman. If I didn't know that he's usually not like this, I'd say they were totally justified. I'm sorry, but this obsession with making Superman into everything good and holy is irritating beyond belief and is really unsustainable. I'm going to bury my head in Byrne's and Jurgen's runs until DC stops taking themselves so fucking seriously and starts tellings stories about people instead of ideas.

On the other hand, it IS kind of a cool gesture. But it's just not Superman. Why couldn't they have someone like Wonder Woman do this kind of thing? Oh right, retconning out everything that makes a character unique. For the 167th time I'm again reduced to wondering what was wrong with a superheroine ambassador who could actually handle this kind of political material without looking like an idiot.

Okay got that out of my system...it's been building slowly since Infinite Crisis.

Date: 2011-04-27 10:13 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
I really, really hate that people are trying to use Superman as anything other than "random superhero who just so happens to be more popular than everyone else". Just STOP.

Indeed. In the current DCU, his popularity is a result of being the "first of a new era" since the Justice Society. (In my private fanon, there were other superheroes and teams around after the JSA, they just kept a low profile.) And they've done stories where Superman is popular enough that whole cults worship him.

Some elements can work, like Superman represents something "loftier" to people which is different from how he really is. There are lots of great Batman stories that involve how "regular people" view Batman. A story were various citizens *see* Superman as "everything good and holy" would work better than a story where Superman *is* "everything good and holy."

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Date: 2011-04-27 08:50 pm (UTC)
mullon: (Bakura)
From: [personal profile] mullon
Nope, stop it, involving Superman in real world stuff never works. It always looks stupid.

Also, from what little I understand about international stuff, he can get multiple citizenships instead of further dissassociating himself from the people who he doesn't want to look like a god to.

Date: 2011-04-27 09:39 pm (UTC)
blackruzsa: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blackruzsa
I approve fully, but given that you need official documents to actually change/renounce citizenship (as far as my parents have taught me) how is this gonna work exactly? Or is it gonna be symbolic too?

Date: 2011-04-27 11:15 pm (UTC)
lorriek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lorriek
I'm not quite sure our laws can be applied to this situation. I suppose Superman (not Clark) could be a naturalized U.S. citizen, but it seems more likely that he was given some sort of honorary citizenship. I doubt an honorary citizenship requires documents to renounce it. Clark, of course, will remain as much a U.S. citizen as he's always been.

I don't mind real-life stuff in comics, although I prefer it be fictionalized to a certain extent. I'm not a fan of real-life presidents showing up in comics other than a one-off collectors item. Let's face it, Iran, the Middle East, etc., are going to be issues for many years to come, so it's not like this will be dated anytime soon.

I like this. Superman should be a citizen of the world, not a representative of any government. The American Way is an unnecessary anachronism. Truth and Justice are universal values (at least I hope they are). I don't know what the people of the DCU think of him, but Superman will always be more than just another superhero to me.

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Date: 2011-04-27 10:26 pm (UTC)
ext_395944: (Default)
From: [identity profile] inthefuturethereisnofuture.blogspot.com
With him renouncing, I think the intention there is to step away from the PERCEPTION that he's American. Because he's completely viewed as a Western hero, isn't he? And that's not going to change any time soon, but if he states it, it's always going to be symbolic, isn't it? Clark Kent is a US citizen, but Superman is above such distinctions.

There was an issue of Joe Kelly's JLA run that dealt with a similar point with regards to the Justice League having "of America" in their name. How their DOES need to be that separation.

Date: 2011-04-27 11:34 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
If the plan is for Superman to not be based in Metropolis, or treat America as his home, then yes that would work, but otherwise the perception isn't going to be going anywhere because the evidence will be the same as it's always been.

Date: 2011-04-27 10:35 pm (UTC)
schala_kid: Stephanie Brown as Batgirl (Default)
From: [personal profile] schala_kid
People raged when Captain America Director said he wasn't going to be a flag waving jingoist, and they raged when Superman was being played by a Brit, Hoo Hoo! They will so rage at this (Especially Fox News).

Date: 2011-04-27 11:36 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Superman, Batman, Mr Fantastic... We're just getting our own back for Kevin bloody Costner as Robin Hood

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Date: 2011-04-27 10:42 pm (UTC)
fifthie: tastes the best (Default)
From: [personal profile] fifthie
I think my major problem with this is if Superman is going to start taking political stands he should just go and punch whatever political figure in the face and say hey, stop being an idiot.

And he should start right here in the US.

Date: 2011-04-27 10:44 pm (UTC)
fifthie: tastes the best (Default)
From: [personal profile] fifthie
If DC prints a comic where John Boehner says something about how we can't raise the debt ceiling and we owe too much money and something something *metaphor comparing the federal government to a middle-class family's fnances* and then Superman just like, slaps him in the face, over and over again

I will buy a hundred copies

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Date: 2011-04-28 02:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] screamsheet.wordpress.com
Does anyone else get the feeling that DC is hoping this issue will make some headlines and get the comic some headlines through the "Superman renounces his American citizenship" thing?

I'm personally having trouble wrapping my head around how it's going to work. The only way I see to really show it making an impact on Superman would be to have him reveal his secret identity. Because unless he does that, it's kind of a hollow gesture.

Date: 2011-04-28 02:13 am (UTC)
proteus_lives: (Default)
From: [personal profile] proteus_lives
World peace without force is likely never going to happen.

Or a truly one of kind event, then only maybe.

Date: 2011-04-28 04:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brandiweed.livejournal.com
I'm just looking forward to the how the wingnuts who aren't already wanking like rhesus monkeys with Viagra suppositories over the Obama birth certificate are going to react to this.

Date: 2011-04-28 07:43 am (UTC)
lascoden: Anarky (Default)
From: [personal profile] lascoden
Thank you for that wonderful image...

Date: 2011-04-28 09:11 am (UTC)
feyandstrange: cartoon icon (Default)
From: [personal profile] feyandstrange
Does anybody else remember a comic that was possibly done as a special comic for the US government, even, about Superman actually GETTING his naturalized citizenship? I am pretty sure I remember seeing Supes take the oath of citizenship and the test and everything with a bunch of random almost-Americans, and possibly some detail about how, yeah, technically he's been given honorary citizenships and stuff, but this is important to him becaue he is an immigrant and he wants to do it the right and proper way. (Which rings pretty true for the big blue boyscout Supes.)

Did I just completely hallucinate this entire comic? Come on, scans_daily, help me out!


Date: 2011-04-28 08:06 pm (UTC)
baxter2814: Spidey noms a chicken leg (suspicious supes)
From: [personal profile] baxter2814
Ooh! I want scans if it exists! Superman is one of those characters that can make even hokey PSAs convincing.

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Date: 2011-04-28 10:26 am (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
I can't wait for the mainstream to catch word of this...

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

Date: 2011-04-28 11:24 pm (UTC)
stillanerd: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stillanerd
Okay, Supes, while it's really admirable and all that you would show "solidarity" with the Iranian protestors and practice "nonviolent resistance" and "civil disobedience" against a the Iranian government, I heard that once upon a time you (or perhaps versions of you from a parallel Earth and/or different era) had taken far more direct approaches in going up against totalitarian dictatorships (I don't mean to invoke Godwin's Law, but...)

http://www.jmberlin.de/comic/bilder/comics/superhelden/bild_1_gross.gif

Including Middle-Eastern totalitarian dictatorships (albeit of the fictional variety)...

http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/6/66/Adventures_of_Superman_427.jpg

Just saying. :p ;P

Date: 2011-04-29 03:49 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] keeva
Actually, I think Superman's attack on Qurac also caused an international incident too.

Date: 2011-04-29 08:53 am (UTC)
ogrebear: Ogrebears Icon (Default)
From: [personal profile] ogrebear
Thing is if you are trying to build an ongoing universe that resembles our own world then Supers have to stay out of politics and world betterment through direct means otherwise the world simply evolves past anything we would recognise.

If Reed Richards, Superman, et all actually *did* something about the state of the environment/dictators/world hunger as people with great power *would* imho it stops being the Superhero world(s) we know very quickly see the rpg Aberrant or The Authority or various What If worlds.

Date: 2011-04-30 11:16 pm (UTC)
aaron_bourque: default (Default)
From: [personal profile] aaron_bourque
"Truth Justice and the American Way aren't enough anymore."

. . . What's so funny about Truth, Justice and the American Way?

Profile

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