Date: 2011-04-27 07:53 pm (UTC)
divi_d: (Default)
From: [personal profile] divi_d
""Truth, Justice, and the American Way" -- It's not ENOUGH anymore."

I APPROVE!

Date: 2011-04-27 07:57 pm (UTC)
toby_wan_kenobi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] toby_wan_kenobi
Depends on how you construe the American way. Being an idealist, I go with "liberty and justice for all", but I know that I'm in the minority, and I understand why.

Date: 2011-04-27 08:00 pm (UTC)
divi_d: (Default)
From: [personal profile] divi_d
Well, it's more that when you associate with a single country you come off as biased (and, in fact, probably are biased).

I'm fully in support of viewing America as a country with virtues: Liberty and Justice, Equal Opportunity (we're not the best at it, IMHO, but we do try to use it as a selling point, and we may become good at it in the future), but there are other countries with these ideals as well. Someone as big as Superman using the country's name as short hand for this... it just doesn't look very good.

Date: 2011-04-27 08:19 pm (UTC)
toby_wan_kenobi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] toby_wan_kenobi
I totally understand that.

That said, I'm not sure how his renouncing his citizenship is going to make people think he's any less American.

I suppose it could be changed to fighting for truth, justice, and liberty now that we're not fighting the Commies anymore.

Date: 2011-04-27 08:10 pm (UTC)
drexer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] drexer
Ditto.

I mean, it's not that I think the 'American Way' is a bad concept; it's just that it has such a baggage with it, with all the main images we outsiders get from the USA being the fundamentalists shouting it high in the air like a mantra, and the tying of concepts such as 'manifest destiny' unto it that it's hard for me to read that phrase and enjoy it fully.

Even more when watching so many writers tiptoeing around the concept in clumsy attempts, never wanting to let it go nor to fully embrace it.

For a long time I hoped for that one moment when someone asked Superman what he stood for and he would answer "Truth, Justice, and Humanity".

Date: 2011-04-27 10:24 pm (UTC)
toby_wan_kenobi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] toby_wan_kenobi
What, you're saying he's racist against Atlanteans?

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

It would be kind of interesting to have some kind of giant debate over what should replace "the American Way" in that catchphrase. I think the worst solution was the one they used in Superman Returns, but what's the best one?

Liberty? Humanity? Freedom? Forty cakes?

Date: 2011-04-27 10:47 pm (UTC)
drexer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] drexer
Pre-Scriptum: I was at a loss as to your reference about the Atlanteans there. Took me a minute to associate that with non-humans. Next time you'll have to use Martians. :P

I don't remember the one from Superman Returns; which one was it again?

I mainly have always defended 'humanity' mainly due to the projection the character of Superman also has unto our reality and into the persons of the DC Universe.

Truth and Justice are pretty universal concepts. The first implies that Superman won't ever lie to us, and thus excuse us from fears of WWtW; while the second ensures to us that Superman shall follow our rules and do not impose his will upon us. Despite it's 203 or more current iterations the concept of Justice is mainly defined as crafted by men(once you go beyond the idea of justice from the heavens and connecting that to Superman is too much of a can of worms for now) and as such the idea that he would abide by them is comforting to those who live or would live with him over the skies.

Humanity for me serves as a third point. The idea that he's just like one of us humans, capable of looking upon himself and others, of feeling empathy and re-evaluating his beliefs; because if he's driven by the same as us then he will lookout for the same as us and reach conclusions similar to ours. Thus ensuring our mutual understanding.

I kind of face the question as the three laws of Robotics for Superman even if simplifying it quite a bit:

Evaluate the situation with your Humanity.
When your viewpoint is at a conflict, trust upon Justice.
When the law is conflicted, rule upon Truth.

PS: Common people, jump into the fray. We need more word-ideas. :P

Date: 2011-04-27 10:58 pm (UTC)
toby_wan_kenobi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] toby_wan_kenobi
Perry White says "Go find out if he's still about Truth, Justice, and all that other stuff." Like we don't know what you mean, Perry.

I think "humanity" is just too vague, personally. When I hear humanity, I think of the human race as a whole, not any kind of moral concept like truth or justice. The problem is that I can't find a good equivalent - "decency" is too loaded with Puritan connotations, for example. I do like where you're going with that, though.

On a related note : Truth, Justice, and Not Being A Dick - Superman as played by Wil Wheaton.

Anyways, that's why I like "liberty". It has direct connections to a language of freedom from oppression and despotism. The most powerful man in the world isn't going to be a tyrant - he's going to fight the tyrants on the behalf of the weak. Huddled masses yearning to breathe free and whatnot.

Date: 2011-04-27 11:31 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
"Liberté! Egalité! Fraternité!" ?

"Six for a dollar!"

"A stitch in time saves nine"

Date: 2011-04-28 12:34 am (UTC)
nezchan: Navis at breakfast (Default)
From: [personal profile] nezchan
Whiskey! Democracy! Sexy!

Date: 2011-04-28 11:33 am (UTC)
cainofdreaming: b/w (Default)
From: [personal profile] cainofdreaming
Bread and circuses!

The Roman Superman doesn't care about your plebeians.

Date: 2011-04-28 12:14 pm (UTC)
heckfire: (Default)
From: [personal profile] heckfire
Blackjack! And hookers!

Benderman fights for alla that.

Date: 2011-04-28 05:36 pm (UTC)
recognitions: (Default)
From: [personal profile] recognitions
Abortions for some, miniature American flags, etc.

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