Ultimate Comics Spider-Man #157

[cyberghostface]

So last issue had the Sinister Six break out of prison. As The Ultimates and Ultimate Avengers were having a battle, Norman Osborn saw this a great opportunity to deal with Spidey once and for all.



Norman doesn't see it this way, especially taking offense at the "we" part. He transforms into the Green Goblin and throws poor Otto out the window. Otto of course has Magneto-powers now and is able to make himself new tentacles to save him.



Of course, Norman proves to be the more powerful out of the two.








Alas poor Otto, we knew him well.

Comments

[mrstatham]

I'm sorry, but what a fucking waste. I was glad Ultimate Norman was 'dead', because even with that amazing issue way back when during his first comeback, he never measured up to some of the stuff that 616 Norman has done.

This, on the other hand? Bendis lays down the idea that this Otto is a significantly different character than his counterpart - He doesn't want to be a criminal, he wants to do science - And this is on top of the being a mutant thing, which was one of the previous run's coolest reveals - And then he pisses all over it.

What comes next had seriously better be worth it. Ultimate Carolyn Trainer had better be AMAZING, like.. Like ULTIMATE DAZZLER amazing, Bendis.

[cyberghostface]

I definitely agree, but Norman was shot point blank in the head and came out for the better, so I'm not ruling out Otto yet. Maybe he has some mutant healing factor we don't know about yet.

[mrstatham]

I don't think that would be the best answer, really. 'Healing factor' is like the lowest common denominator when it comes to lazy answers for someone being back from the dead. Unless Bendis tweaks Ultimate Origins a little to state that it's by design that some mutants have a healing factor, I'm not really buying it.

If I can get a badass, snidey, snot-nosed brat-like version of Carolyn Trainer who's more Peter's age and could create some really awkward sexual tension between then two of them, then that would make my day. Unfortunately, I don't think Bendis is looking to cater to me.

[artsybuzzard]

I like your idea of Ultimate Carolyn. Alas, I also will not be getting my hopes up. :]

[mrstatham]

I think Bendis already has his awkward-problem-girl quota filled with that Bombshell girl who turned up at his school following the Chameleon storyline, which is kind-of a shame, really.

[insolent_one]

Maybe Doc Ock will come back as some kind of cyborg or psychically-controlled robot octopus? I think they have yet to really reveal just how similar or different his powers may be compared to Magneto's, and just what he could do outside of making tentacles. I know he's stated that he likes using them (or that he's at leaast good at using them) but I could see him becoming something like Cyborg Superman.

[mrstatham]

It would be good if we could get something like that, but this is Bendis. It's either gonna be hit or miss, really, and I'm kinda leaning toward miss with this one, especially as Death of Spider-Man seems to be something of a slate-cleaning exercise for the upcoming relaunch.

[thatnickguy]

To be perfectly honest, turning Otto into a low-rent Magneto was silly to me. I liked how almost all of Spidey's villains were mad inventors or something. It was bad enough when Bendis made the Goblins basically Hulks with fire. Then Otto was, as I said, a low-rent Magneto.

Believe me, in the beginning, I was an avid fan of Ult. Spidey. But I've grown to dislike a vast majority of it due to Bendis' handling of the villains.

[mrstatham]

I'd agree, but to me, it actually did what the Ultimate Universe was partially meant to do - Create something different. The characters might be recognisable, but you could change them and make them tick differently, and that was what I found exciting. Bendis did the best job of this with characters like Gwen and Dazzler.

So I never really took issue with making Otto a low-rent Magneto. For starters, we never really knew that he was 'low-rent' - The guy could repeatedly summon his original tentacles from miles away, after all. I got the feeling he was a lot more powerful than was let on, but he just had a predilection for using the 'robotic' arms, really.

[thatnickguy]

Maybe he was just unoriginal and could only think of arms. Which would be ironic, given the brilliant mind he was supposed to have.

But yeah, I do agree with you on some aspects. I loved the new version of Venom, along with tying Brock in closer with Pete. Pretty much everything there was perfect, even what the symbiote was, instead. And they incorporated Eddie's Pete-related background into Spectacular Spider-Man.

Totally agree on Gwen, though. I liked how he switched character traits between her and MJ. It oddly worked well.

I guess what I didn't like about creating something different is a lot of it just didn't work for me. The Goblins as Hulks was vastly inferior to all the fun gadgets and stuff the original Goblin used.

Again, I don't entirely hate the Ult. Universe. There were some things I liked, like Millar's Ultimates, especially his takes on Cap, Thor and Iron Man. But sometimes, there's a reason that the stuff we've seen for 50 years has been around for 50 years, you know?

[mrstatham]

I think the Goblins were perhaps a little poor, and poorly explained, really. I understood the nature of Oz being Norman's own little pitch for the renewed Super Soldier formula, but I never got how his treatment made him a gigantic monster and Peter's kept him a human spider just because it had been run through a spider. *shrugs*

But the Goblins were a bit rubbish. I liked the notion of them being tangentially related to the Ultimate Hulk by virtue of them being competing projects, but the Goblin should have gadgets, you're right. I think something like the movie version, only without that incredibly ugly armour, could've worked better.

[lbd_nytetrayn]

Maybe he was just unoriginal and could only think of arms. Which would be ironic, given the brilliant mind he was supposed to have.

Perhaps, but on the other hand, he knew the arms, they were like extensions of him, weren't they?

If you were to imagine a new appendage for yourself, say another arm or two-- what would be more intuitive, arms like the ones you know and have now, or maybe some arms with three or four segments between the body and hands?

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

[shadowpsykie]

that second to the last panel on the second to the last page... were otto and norman...a couple?

[mrstatham]

Yeah, this is just a really bad tiff.

The divorce will be ugly.

[shadowpsykie]

Sorry I seriously dont keep up on much of marvel, let alone ultimate marvel, just the way they were talking and looking seemed to suggest... Ack! I guess I was reading too much into it...

There were the naked men though....

[mrstatham]

Heh, I was just rolling with the joke.

But yeah, in the Ultimate Universe, Norman and Otto are pretty much responsible for Peter being what he is - Aside from the million in one chance that it was him and not, say, Flash Thompson that got bit by their genetically-mutated spider at Oscorp. It's made the relationship between Otto and Norman a bit odd, especially factoring in the idea that Otto was actually an industrial spy whilst he was working at Oscorp.

[shadowpsykie]

Sooi in the words of Lois Lane. "are you telling me that spider-man is the genetic love child of Otto Octavius and Norman Osborn?"

[cyberghostface]

In Ultimate Six, there's a scene where Norman says something like "In a way, Otto and I are your parents."

[shadowpsykie]

there is ALOT of FoeYay and HoYay in Ultimate verse i;ve notuced

[icon_uk]

They were even arguing over who got custody of their kid when it all went to hell.

[shadowpsykie]

also there are two naked men and one half naked man... im not the only one seeing this right?

[lascoden]

Imagine if the owners of the house walked in.

[shadowpsykie]

"OH Bradly, they started the party without us" begins stripping clothing.

out side spider-man swings by on patrol..

"Oh god! my eyes! my eyes!"

[auggie18]

It's Ultimate Spider-man. Naked guys are EVERYWHERE.

[shadowpsykie]

In noticed... Maybe we should have a "naked ultimates week"

[ironspider]

New idea for a sitcom: Two and a half naked men!

[misterbug]

Having flipped through the issue, I'm starting to suspect Bendis' brain is coming apart at the edges. Isn't Kraven meant to be Russian? Why is he suddenly talking like a pirate?

[mrstatham]

Ultimate Kraven was never Russian. Here, he was first presented as a crappy TV show host who used his 'shamanistic' abilities to hunt down prey, and as such, he came to New York to hunt Spider-Man. He's Australian, I believe, and he was, up until Ultimate Six, a complete putz who Spidey could knock out in one hit.

[misterbug]

Okay. Still, not exactly an explanation as to why he's now in buccaneer-mode.

[thehefner]

While I'm a less-than-casual follower of the Ultimate books, I LOVED seeing Otto's character turn in Ultimate Doom, and was so hoping that Bendis had plans for him. I'm super-sad that this the result of those plans. I really wanted to see "good" Otto as a supporting character in the Ultimate U. Damn damn damn. Hopefully it's a fake-out, but his smoldering body (which we see later in the issue) isn't encouraging. And that he had to die at the hands of Ultimate Norman, whom I've always hated... feh.

[halloweenjack]

Yeah, I'm not sure how the fight turned around, but U-Otto seems like he should have been able to throw a few cars at U-Norman, throw him into the East River, and take off. Even if it's not quite a heel-face turn, it would have been nice to have at least one of them simply decide that all these slugfests were bogus and that it was time to go off somewhere else and make the tall coin.

[mullon]

I remember when Ultimate started almost a decade ago, and what was cool about it was how things like people's deaths stuck and how writers were trying new thing with the mythos.

[fifthie]

people's deaths stuck

No they didn't.

[cyberghostface]

Yeah, both Magneto and the Green Goblin "died" early on in their respective arcs only to come back after a short period. So this isn't new.

Also I don't see how Bendis stopped trying new things with the mythos either.

[jlbarnett]

why's he relying on the tentacles? Why not plunge a ton of metal into his back as a spear?

[espanolbot]

Norman: I will have my revenge on Spider-Man!
Electro: He's dead.
Norman: What?
Electro: Punisher shot him. It's all over the news, haven't you been paying attention?
Norman: Well, new plan! Throw all of his female friends and relatives off of the Brooklyn Bridge!

*Cut to the Parker house, which has the X-Men, Fantastice Four and the Ultimates all haning around*
Noorman: AH, Balls!

[valtyr]

The preview for the next issue is actually up and, well. LOL.

[blunderbuss]

Y'know, I really like the sentiment that Otto expresses here - that a villain looks back at how they pushed a superhero into being an even greater person and being proud of it. It's a neat idea that really could serve as great character develop --

-- oh wait, nevermind. :/

[aaron_bourque]

ULTIMATE DOCTOR OCTOPUS: Yes, "out." As in, until you start wearing PANTS, Norman, I'm not working with you again!

REST OF SINISTER SIX: We're A-OK with it!