cyberghostface: (Spidey & MJ)
[personal profile] cyberghostface posting in [community profile] scans_daily

As requested by [personal profile] stubbleupdate , this is Ultimate Six, presented in two parts. It was written by Bendis and illustrated by Trevor Hairsine.

So all you need to know at the moment is that the Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus, Sandman and Electro are all in S.H.I.E.L.D. custody.

Ultimate Sandman is, IMO, one of the title's disappointments. His first real appearance was a one-shot issue that came out on the same week as the first issue of Ultimate Six in which he battled Spider-Man and little else. As such he's a fairly flat character and hasn't made any real significant appearances outside of his time with the Six. In comparison, the Shocker (who is the 'joke' of USM in that he often appears and gets his ass kicked) got an issue to himself describing his motivations. IMO, Sandman could have benefitted from at least playing a superpowered heavy to someone bigger like Electro did for an arc or two. It's a shame, as I think Sandy in the 616 universe is one of the more interesting of Spidey's rogues.

Hank Pym (who is the one leading the therapy session) tells Norman he can't do that.

Norman then asks what is the purpose of his collar, which is intended to surpress the prisoner's genetic abilities. As he points out, Otto doesn't have his arms and Norman needs injections of Oz to transform into the Green Goblin. So why does he need them? That's when Nick Fury arrives, who tells them its because he says so.

We later go to Kraven who, as you may know, is a celebrity in the Ultimate universe. When he first appeared, he created a lot of hype about hunting Spider-Man as a part of his reality tv show. When he first battled Spider-Man, however, Spidey quickly punched him out and called him a showbiz phony. Now he's ready to after Spider-Man again, this time with genetic enhancements. Of course, the Ultimates catch quick wind of this and arrest him, taking him into S.H.I.E.L.D. custody with the rest of Spidey's rogues.

The collar ends up zapping Kraven into submission.

There was a lot of speculation at the time of who was going to be the sixth member. Harry was the most popular choice, but a couple of people thought it was Hank Pym(!) who was going through a bit of a rough spot in his own title.

So next issue, Dr. Octopus offers to help Pym and S.H.I.E.L.D. and offer something to society to make up for his crimes.

Nick Fury runs this down to the Ultimates, because if something goes wrong, they will be the ones to clean it up. Captain America asks Fury if any of the prisoners are the way they are because of super soldier experiments that Fury commissioned in an attempt to create the experiment that made him who he is. There's silence, and then Nick Fury says "Yes."

Otto is taken to a research facility with Pym and others. The scientists want to talk to him about his arms.

"Peter makes six."



So in the aftermath, the Ultimates examine what has gone on. The escaped villains have killed nearly everyone in the facility (Hank Pym is one of the few survivors) and have now escaped.

Nick Fury says they can't locate them until they power up. Captain America asks why, and Fury responds that if they had the technology to find anyone anywhere his butt wouldn't have sat in a block of ice for fifty years.

Nick Fury then realizes that all of the villains have one thing in common: Peter Parker.


In #4...

Fury is being chewed out by President Dubya. Norman Osborn apparently called the White House to report that Nick Fury kidnapped him and his son, illegally detained his company and stole his research. He wants international amnesty for himself and the others. As you can expect, Dubya is furious, accusing Fury of setting up a "super-villain concentration camp" behind his back.

When Fury leaves, Norman calls him on the phone and asks if he's a priority now.


The Ultimates arrive at Kraven's television offices looking for Osborn and co. there, only to discover that the entire thing was a set up to distract them. Nick Fury then discovers that Dr. Octopus has hacked into S.H.I.E.L.D.'s computers, causing a massive black out.

Date: 2011-05-22 06:59 pm (UTC)
shanejayell: (Question)
From: [personal profile] shanejayell
Not bad. You really need to have read some of the earlier Ultimate Goblin stories to get how fixated Norman is on Pete. He pretty much views Spider Man as his ultimate creation... so to speak.

Date: 2011-05-22 08:30 pm (UTC)
proteus_lives: (Default)
From: [personal profile] proteus_lives
I love the the scene with Doc Ock stabbing those dudes. Great art movement and dialogue.

Date: 2011-05-22 10:27 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
I like how in the Ultimates verse, a team-up of spidey villains is a very big-hitter scenario.

Date: 2011-05-22 11:01 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
is this the newest Ultimates series? im a little confused... the Ultimates, and New Ultimates, and Ultimate Avengers is really screwing with my mind... can some one give me a run down of the Ultimate verse?

Date: 2011-05-23 01:15 am (UTC)
eamelion: (Default)
From: [personal profile] eamelion
Ultimates split into the New Ultimates and the Ultimate Avengers, which is now becoming Ultimate Comics Ultimates (worse name ever).

This is prior to the split.

Date: 2011-05-23 01:40 am (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
okay.... so... um the Norman/Otto fight was in the latest issue of... UItimates 3....? and spider-man getting shot (how did that turn out?) happens during this time too?

Date: 2011-05-23 01:55 am (UTC)
randyripoff: (Butterworm)
From: [personal profile] randyripoff
To be brutally frank, I pretty much despised this particular storyline. I might have loved it had Spider-Man been allowed to have the hero moment and defeat all of them single-handedly,'s Bendis. No one has hero moments in anything Bendis writes, so we get way too much Osborn (seriously, nothing would make me happier than seeing every single Osborn/Goblin diced into little pieces and fed to Galactus, never to return), Peter...well, you're getting there, so I won't spoil it, and it's just more dreary deconstruction. Bleah.

Sorry, rant over. I know many of you love this stuff.

Date: 2011-05-23 01:57 am (UTC)
eamelion: (Default)
From: [personal profile] eamelion
Mark Millar and Brian Hitch did Ultimates 1 and Ultimates 2. Those were the Hulk, Chitauri (Skrulls), and Grand Theft America stories.

This story (Ultimate Six) happens during that time frame. Either between the first and second arc in Ultimates 1, or between Ultimates 1 and 2.

After that Jeph Loeb and Joe Mad did New Ultimates, with that horrible horrible death of the Scarlet Witch story. The New Ultimates are the "day team" - the heroes the world knows about.

Mark Millar then came back and did Ultimate Comics Avengers, which are the black ops version of the Ultimates. It wasn't much better. The Norman/Otto fight and Spider-Man getting shot is the end of Ultimate Avengers.

Later this year Hickman is launching Ultimate Comics Ultimates, which from what I understand, is a combination of New Ultimates and Ultimate Comics Avengers.

Hope that helps (it's a mess, I agree)

Date: 2011-05-23 02:09 am (UTC)
eamelion: (Default)
From: [personal profile] eamelion
I looked it up! So, to clarify.

Ultimates (Millar/Hitch)
- Ultimate War (X-Men/Ultimates crossover, Millar/Bachalo)
- Ultimate Six (**This story!!**)
- Ultimate Galactus Trilogy (Ellis)
Ultimates 2 (Millar/Hitch)
- Ultimate Power (Supreme Power/Ultimates crossover, Loeb I think)
Ultimates 3 (by Loeb/Mad)
Ultimate Comics New Ultimates (By Loeb/Cho, got these two confused)
Ultimate Comics Avengers (By Millar/Various)
Ultimate Comics Ultimates

Date: 2011-05-23 02:16 am (UTC)
big_daddy_d: (Default)
From: [personal profile] big_daddy_d
I wish you posted the scenes where Cap asks Thor to do something to which Thor simply says "No." Favorite scenes in the book that just gave me a laugh. Overall, this was a significant book for me as it introduced me to the Ultimates and lead me to buying their books.

Date: 2011-05-23 03:22 am (UTC)
stolisomancer: (akiyama)
From: [personal profile] stolisomancer
No one has hero moments in anything Bendis writes,

Well, that's not even slightly true, especially with regard to Ultimate Spider-Man.

Date: 2011-05-23 03:25 am (UTC)
glimmung: (Default)
From: [personal profile] glimmung
Nice icon.
Courtney Crumrin fan are you?

Date: 2011-05-23 05:21 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
The thing is, a team-up of Spider-Man villains should be big-hitters in the 616-verse, really. Sandman and Electro in particular are terrifyingly lethal in the right hands. I do like Peter's D: face, though.

Date: 2011-05-23 05:23 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
They're nothing to laugh at, sure, but in 616 they aren't going to be national-level threats like here.

Date: 2011-05-23 05:25 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
The entire point of this, as someone points about above, is that some of the Ultimate characters making up the Six are a hell of a lot more dangerous than their 616 counterparts. Peter had trouble defeating the Goblin alone, especially when Norman was absolutely jacked up on Oz. At this point in Peter's career, to take them all on would be suicide.

Date: 2011-05-23 06:26 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arilou_skiff
Which is why they need white-suit Doc Ock back. He could credibly do the national threat thing.

Date: 2011-05-23 07:28 am (UTC)
thehefner: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehefner
Badass as Otto is here, 616!Otto has often been shown to be as dangerous as this counterpart, and sometimes even more so. Especially during his white powersuit era.

Date: 2011-05-23 07:29 am (UTC)
thehefner: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehefner

If I ever have the time, I'm gonna do a whole series on the evolution of Otto, with a special focus on the white suit era, which most people have sadly forgotten.

Date: 2011-05-23 07:56 am (UTC)
glprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] glprime
Ack, so much of this writing just... hurts.

1) Your cabinet is tied to a company with a hot potato CEO? Boo-freaking-hoo for you, pal. Cronyism ain't never been something for law enforcement to give a damn about (as far as investigations go) and you sure as hell shouldn't bitch to the top law dog about it (since he could easily ask Justice department to pass a glance over everything you've ever done). As in, that's not Fury's problem and don't try to talk like it should be.

2) "White collar terrorists..." Oh, Norman, you so crazy. You mutilated people and you still think you're a "white collar" criminal in the right, like a super-powered Gordon Gecko. But seriously, the muddying of the word "terrorist" is something I'm getting just a wee bit tired of these last 10 years.

I realize a lot of that is the writers putting in "super secret political commentary," but it really feels forced and limp. Drawing real-world caricatures and having their controversies in your story with no real point (other than to kind of mug to the audience, nudge, nudge, wink, wink). Have more to say guys, or don't use it.

Okay, rant over.

The main thing I liked and kept following any "Ultimates" book for was seeing how a modern, semi-realistic (less "60s super-sciencey) agency/military organization would police super-powers. That got kind of lost here and there, but as a background element it was interesting. And yes, it was a somewhat successful parable of how current security/law enforcement agencies struggle to keep WMDs from falling into the wrong hands, and are having a continually harder time doing it, with the rate at which new threats pop up, and the ability to create these horrifying threats becomes easier and cheaper.

Date: 2011-05-23 11:44 am (UTC)
randyripoff: (Maggie and Hopey)
From: [personal profile] randyripoff
Yup. Good stuff.

Date: 2011-05-23 11:47 am (UTC)
randyripoff: (Default)
From: [personal profile] randyripoff
Exactly. One of the reasons I've enjoyed Doc Ock over the years is that he's quite capable of being extremely ruthless. Maybe not the sociopathic maniac the Joker is, but if someone's in his way, he has no compunction whatsoever about killing them.

With luck, when the Goblin's are fed to Galactus, he'll be given the power up he deserves.

Date: 2011-05-23 11:54 am (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
For me, the problem is this: if you create a 'realistic' framework for your story with some big unrealistic elements, you call direct attention to them...or worse, when you create an explanation for ONE issue, you make any non-addressed issues stand out in a GLARING fashion.

To some degree, the problem is that a realistic narrative about superheroes is at direct odds with a story where stuff is resolved with the punchings. For example: how is Doctor Octopus apparently not only a genius at robotics (and he's implying here that maybe he actually ISN'T, but is a mutant) but also apparently a genius computer hacker? I realize being a black-hat computer security hacker isn't exactly the stuff of page-turners, but it bugs me that somehow Doc Ock just can totally compromise the security of a multi-billion dollar government agency effectively in an hour or two and has total access everywhere. It's the classic 'science is all the same' approach to mad science dudes, basically. For that matter, the same applies to Norman Osborn...apparently he's a master of all business-related fields, everywhere...and by extension, he's also a master politician who can out-maneuver lifelong career politicians who are IN POWER. Never mind that SHIELD apparently took their stupid pills when incarcerating these guys and had exactly ZERO countermeasures for them. (I realize I may have missed the scenes where they defeated them...but seriously, if we're supposed to believe that the collars were the only thing they had, that's just DUMB. Hell, turn on the sprinkler system and electro's a liability or out of commission).

I mean, if that was supposed to be Bush, then the writer clearly doesn't understand how Bush would have handled that situation. He would have likely doubled-down, not turtled up. A president who made it through Abu Ghraib, Blackwater scandals and Guantanamo is somehow going to be threatened that teh public finds out that he's holding six psychopathic super-powered felons in jail? REALLY? Hell, I'd expect any president to hold a press conference to BRAG about it, especially in the MU.

Ultimates was supposed to be a reset of the MU in a modern context without the burden of continuity. Now it's just as encumbered and clumsy as the 616 universe, only with more violence and less charm. There IS stuff to like here, but part of it really says to me "either decide to be a crazy superhero book or be a realistic superhero book...but not BOTH."

Date: 2011-05-23 01:43 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: manga-style picture of a female-identified person with long hair, face not drawn, putting on a Japanese fox-spirit max (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
Do we have a post about this white powersuit era? If not, would you like to post some? :)

Date: 2011-05-23 03:19 pm (UTC)
baxter2814: credit goes to <lj user=devildoll> (I'm taking my woobie)
From: [personal profile] baxter2814
"... Now it's just as encumbered and clumsy as the 616 universe, only with more violence and less charm."


And then I realize that the modern 616's disconnect from its past makes it just as charmless as the Ultimate universe, and I cry.

I know I'm probably a rarity, but I actually love huge amounts of complex continuity that I can never know every detail of and can't be reconciled without a sliding timescale, because it ties the modern stories back to the decades and decades for which these characters existed and makes them so much grander and more timeless than the sum of their recent stories.

Date: 2011-05-23 03:28 pm (UTC)
filthysize: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filthysize
To be fair, this story came out in 2003. Considering comic books tend to be written far in advance, at the Bendis wrote it, Abu Ghraib and Blackwater hadn't happened yet, and Guantanamo was only starting to be known to the public.

Date: 2011-05-23 05:11 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: (ask the questions)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
okay so the Current (uptodate) series is currently Ultimate Comics New Ultimates and Ultimate Comics Avengers?

in ultimate comics avengers you have the banner clone, and vampires and Tony's Blond twin brother?

New Ultimates has spider-man getting shot saving captain america?
does this happen bfore or after Norman/Otto's Lover's quarrel?

(seriously i thought the Hack job of Ultimatum was supposed to clear things up, it seems EVN MORE convoluted than ever....)

so how is spider-man? did anyone ever post what happened after he was shot?

Date: 2011-05-23 07:06 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
I do remember reading something about how childish PAD was because the white powersuit Doc Ock beat the Hulk down, and how he retaliated against Erik Larsen by having the Hulk do the same in his own book.

And I'm fairly certain it was on S_D. Hmm.

Date: 2011-05-23 07:13 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
How did I not notice the potential for a meme with that panel of Norman going 'MY BOY!' ?? It's so obvious!

Date: 2011-05-23 08:41 pm (UTC)
stubbleupdate: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stubbleupdate
Ultimate Hank Pym: Counsellor.


Date: 2011-05-23 09:32 pm (UTC)
ogrebear: Ogrebears Icon (Default)
From: [personal profile] ogrebear
Hum... imho everything after Ultimates 2 was kinda weak to terrible - esp Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum.

Date: 2011-05-23 09:49 pm (UTC)
valtyr: (vamp ult Cap)
From: [personal profile] valtyr
I liked the first arc of Ultimate Avengers, and New Ultimates vs Ultimate Avengers is holding my interest.

Date: 2011-05-23 09:54 pm (UTC)
valtyr: (blow a kiss)
From: [personal profile] valtyr
That is pretty much exactly what Jan says.

Date: 2011-05-24 12:44 am (UTC)
bradhanon: (Supervillain)
From: [personal profile] bradhanon
Goddamn, Bendis's boner for fascism just never sits well with me. I get that it's efficient from a storytelling standpoint, I get that you can justify it as a "realistic" response to supervillainy, I get that it's sorta-kinda being questioned within the story as maybe not TOTALLY awesome.

None of that matters, because you still have a sympathetic protagonist arguing against the concept of human rights. The CONCEPT.

One of the reasons I hate Ultimate Captain America is that, given Ultimate SHIELD, he doesn't do what Real Cap would do, which is take one look at SHIELD's legal authority and organizational structure, beat the living shit out of Nick Fury, and drag him to the Hague by his eyepatch.

Date: 2011-05-24 03:31 am (UTC)
halloweenjack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] halloweenjack
It was very well done--kind of like the kitchen scene in Terminator 2 (I'm sure you know what I mean) dialed up to eleven.

Date: 2011-05-24 03:33 am (UTC)
halloweenjack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] halloweenjack
I think that the problem is that, at some level, all of the original 616 Spidey villains were conceived of as glorified bank robbers or mercenaries. In Astro City terms, they all would have ended up in Keifer Square.

Date: 2011-05-24 03:39 am (UTC)
halloweenjack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] halloweenjack
This is pretty decent, although the art is kind of iffy WRT the faces--Peter, especially, just looks wrong most of the time.

Date: 2011-05-24 04:56 am (UTC)
thehefner: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehefner
I don't think anybody's posted Otto from this era. I'd like to do it myself, but it'll be a big project, and I don't have the time or energy for that yet. Someday, maybe!

Date: 2011-05-24 05:24 am (UTC)
proteus_lives: (Default)
From: [personal profile] proteus_lives
I know that scene well. I watched that movie to tatters when I was a pup.

Sometimes the best action happens off-screen/panel.

Leave it to the readers/viewers imagination.

Date: 2011-05-24 05:41 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
And this tends to hold true the *more* powerful they are. Goblins and Kingpin can be ambitious, Elektro or Sandman or Hydroman less so.

Date: 2011-05-24 07:34 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arilou_skiff
That's kind of what makes them good characters I think. They're a very.. Mundane sort of criminal with extraordinary powers. They're not monsters, not really, although they are bad people, but they're still (most of them anyway) people. They have families, friends, lives of their own. Often kind of broken lives (as that of career criminals tends to be) but still.

Date: 2011-05-26 10:44 am (UTC)
bariman: by perletwo (Default)
From: [personal profile] bariman
Yeah, 'cause Pym did so well prior to this when Doc Ock woke up from his coma.

Pym: Yeah, so, we left you scarred and with those arms attached to you 'cause we didn't feel like trying to remove them. And we want to know how they work. For SCIENCE.
Otto: *flips his shit*
Pym: Totally didn't see that coming. *gets impaled*

Date: 2011-05-26 10:49 am (UTC)
bariman: by perletwo (Default)
From: [personal profile] bariman
Well, as Fury says, they will be tried after their powers are removed and they are certified sane enough to stand trial. You don't stick someone in a courtroom to be tried when they can easily kill everyone in the room and walk out.

Right now, there are murderously insane people who don't get tried, because they are, well, murderously insane. They're kept in mental institutions, away from the public, if and until they are sane enough to be tried. This is a very similar situations, except the murderously insane people have superpowers.


scans_daily: (Default)
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