Gotham City Sirens #23

[superfangirl1]

Comments

[sherkahn]

Any points Harley's won for redemption have been completely ruined after this issue.

[shadowpsykie]

unless its all dream.... its a dream right....? PLEASE TELL ME ITS A DREAM!!!!!!

*runsawaycrying*

[darkknightjrk]

I'm still kinda hoping that Harley is lulling Joker into thinking she's back as his obedient hench-wench before she does something to REALLY fuck him over.

[shadowpsykie]

^^^^^THIS

[mullon]

That's what I thought, but this isn't making me hopeful...

[proteus_lives]

Doesn't justify her cheering his latest murder spree even if that's the case.

[janegray]

Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't Harley just break him out? If so, she isn't just cheering his murder spree, she is directly responsible for his murder spree, and for the murder sprees of all the other villains (like Zsasz) that Joker broke out once he got free.

[proteus_lives]

This is true. Legally and morally.

[icon_uk]

The grotesque torture and bodycount here means I basically no longer care whether that's the case or not.

[janegray]

Motto.

I somehow doubt that the innocent people who got horrifically butchered, the parents who lost a son or daughter, the siblings who lost a brother or sister, the spouse who lost a husband or wife, the children who lost a parent, are going to think that all their agony is an acceptable price to pay to make Joker suffer a slightly worse fate than if Harley had just shot him in his cell or not broken into Arkham at all.

[jaybee3]

Why would anyone want to WORK in Arkham Asylum again? Unless the guards on paid in 6 figures I don't get it, It's pretty much a guaranteed you'll end up dead sooner or later.

Ha!

[mambalev]

I wouldn't work their for any less than 7 figures and my own Lex Luthor battlesuit.

They probably employ people who can't get a better job for a crappy wage just to drive home how much Gotham sucks.

[filthysize]

Same reason why a lot of poor, underprevileged young men go into the military.

[screamsheet.wordpress.com]

Yeah, but you've got a decent chance of survival in most military jobs. In Arkham, it's about a 99.9% chance that you'll either wind up dead or insane.

[fifthie]

The military gives you body armor and an m16.

[jlbarnett]

so I'm guessing Gotham City Sirens is about to be cancelled?

[pepperspray101]

That was the latest rumor I heard.

[darkknightjrk]

Well, the August solicitation makes it look like they're going to go their seperate ways soon...but, then it looks like the whole DCU is wrapping up a bit to prepare for whatever's going to happen in September, and the writer has talked about how he's going to break them apart so that he can bring them back as a closer unit, which sounds like he's going to be on the book for a while yet.

[red_menace]

Ugh, this is painful. Remember when this was a fanservicy book about three ladies who trusted and respected one another just a little bit? I do, and these last few arcs have made me very sad.

[fifthie]

In fairness, it was always a fanservicey book about three ladies who trusted and respected one another a bit, two of whom were psychopathic murderers, one of those two being the former girlfriend of a psychopathic mass-murderer.

It was always a ghoulish concept, even before they made it explicit, like here.

[red_menace]

I should have phrased that better, I mean when it was a team book about three women who could watch eachother's backs without constant squabbling and cheap, poorly written pseudo-drama. Psychopaths or no, it was a book about an all-girl team, and we're not exactly swimming in those, so I'm sad to see it turn to crap like it has since Dini left.

But you're right, it was an awkward idea that didn't have much of a shelf-life after the Batverse stabilized. I just wished it had ended there, rather than shambling on like a zombie the way it has been.

[jeyl]

Kill her Ivy. Just kill her. I don't care anymore.

[mommy]

I really don't like this take on Joker. Where's the comedy? The finesse?

[thehefner]

Lost sometime around the time Grant Morrison took over?

[darkknightjrk]

I disagree--Grant's Joker has had hysterical moments.

[mrstatham]

I personally liked the bit where Joker ruins the Black Glove and basically tells them they're fucked in RIP. And his murders throughout Batman and Robin were a little more subtle than usual, but were really quite clever once you got that they were all jokes.

[darkknightjrk]

Yep--and how Joker is "dispatched" in RIP was pretty funny, too. :D

[lego_joker]

I disagree a bit here - they struck me as a tad too subtle and research-dependent to be jokes. Clever? Byzantine? I'll grant you that much. But they felt more like clues the Riddler would leave.

The whole bones = dominoes sequence in B&R was an especially egregious example of that. For a second there, I thought we'd suddenly slipped into a Riddler story.

But then, maybe it's just a matter of taste. I like my humor to have immediate payoff, and pack a lot of bite.

(And for the love of my life, I simply cannot hear Mark Hamill in my head whenever I read ANY of Morrison's Joker stories, though.)

But yeah, Morrison was far from the worst, or even the guy who got the ball rolling. I still maintain that Joker went down the tubes with NML, and despite the occasional resurgences of brilliance (most of which were manufactured by Chuck Dixon), he's been spiraling down in terms of charisma and humor ever since. Even Dini's slipped and fell since the brilliance of Slayride ("Trust" remains one of the most painful Joker stories I've ever read).

[screamsheet.wordpress.com]

Long before that. The Joker hasn't been much of a joker for a decade or more now.

[icon_uk]

For the most part I agree, but I'd say that when Paul Dini's been writing him he's been closer to "Classic" Joker.

[auggie18]

This is so wrong on so many levels. This isn't the dynamic Harley and Ivy have and this isn't how Ivy would handle this situation. Remember when that cop killed one of the orphans Ivy took in during the earthquake? Ivy didn't mess around there and I don't understand why she would here.

[icon_uk]

Playing the most satanic of Devil's Advocates here, perhaps she's trying to make Harley actually CHOOSE for herself. If Ivy "just" kills Joker, then Harley still won't have learned to take a stand, may romanticise her past with the Joker, and find herself in a somewhat similarly destructive relationship again.

If Harley chooses to positively reject the Joker, then she ends up a stronger person.

[starwolf_oakley]

It's really hard for DC to sell Harley as a pseudo-good guy. Of course, you could say the same thing about Poison Ivy and Catwoman.

[mrstatham]

No, Catwoman's easier to sell as a pseudo-good guy because she's been toeing the line for more than ten years and her most recent series pretty much presented her as a decent person who made tough choices.

Ivy's also easier to sell dependant upon how you present her - The vast majority of the major Bat-Rogues can have something of a sympathetic element to them, save for Joker and a few others. Harley's exactly the same, in her own way.

It's just that this writer is completely fucking useless, frankly. Selina's useless and isn't even privy to discussions about whether or not she's allowed to remember Bruce's identity, Ivy... Well, Ivy hasn't done much at all that's worthy of merit in this book. And Harley was presented fairly well under Dini - A relatively sympathetic airhead, but dangerous nonetheless. This newer writer still hasn't justified the three of them working together - Which should've been the first thing done once Dini left - And has pretty much abandoned the notion of progressive characterisation to embrace stuff that's been done before.

[janegray]

Catwoman has only ever murdered one person in her whole life: the crime lord who had gleefully tortured her brother-in-law to death and her sister to insanity (his reason: because Selina loved them and he loved hurting Selina). And even then, she only killed him because he outright told her that he would come after her loved ones again.

Sure, Selina is a criminal, she killed one guy and she steals from rich people. But she is nowehere near the level of Poison Ivy and Harley, they are in a whole different league.

[xammax]

Not sure on Ivy here but.... I think the rest of this makes sense.

People forget but Harley is truly and forever a very sick individual. I would love to use every horrible word to describe her, I really would. People get caught up in the giggling and the school girl act but always from the beginning she has been driven by her obsession with the Joker and the violence that surrounds that. So the idea that she returns, like she always does, to this world doesn't shock.

That said, come on man. Joker couldn't even make a shocking pun or something.

[icon_uk]

I don't think it's that this is shocking, so much as... disappointing.

There were hints, even in her BTAS origin that she was a slightly tragic figure insamsuch as she could be seen as trying to change. "Harley's Holiday", "Mad Love", "Masquerade". Failing to be sure, but trying (And BTAS Joker not being as murder laden as the comics helped).

The comics have had her, if not reform, but not be as lethal or cruel, but as seen here, that's now out the window too.

[screamsheet.wordpress.com]

Wasn't it just like two or three issues ago that Harley was showing some development away from being the Joker's unquestioning lackey? They had her break into Arkham and actually use her psychology background just so she could go back to being a cheerleader for the Joker's homicidal (and by now totally boring and predictable) rampages?

[rdfox]

I want Dini back on this book. Or, failing that, how about Karl Kesel? He wrote a truly awesome Harley, and his Ivy and Selina were pretty damn good, too.

But screamsheet's right. Harley was just starting to really develop well and finally break away from Joker for good, then this new writer shows up for what *seemed* like it was gonna be a brief fill-in arc, and he reverts all the characters back to stereotypes, essentially retconning the whole book's developments.

The only way I can see this being salvaged is if, when Mistah Jay inevitably betrays Harley (and you KNOW he will), she finally snaps and takes him out in a way that sticks for at least a few years. And then either ends up back with Ivy, or with Holly Robinson again (because she had *great* chemistry with her, too!). Otherwise, this is like when Kesel left Harley's ongoing--the book didn't just jump *one* shark, it lined up six dozen of them, jumped over them three times, then danced across them before attempting to force itself down the largest one's throat.

[janegray]

What a shame, I liked Harley.

[retro_nouveau]

Hate it.

I like the art, except for Joker's painted-on smile extensions.

Pam's entrance was badass, and she can neutralize Mr. J and (try to) talk sense into Harley at the same time. Grass Ugg boots, heh.

"Ms. Q". XD

[blackruzsa]

Whoa
his cheeks.

And I am crying proudly for Pam right now, being the voice of reason.