bluefall: blue-tinted autumn leaves (Default)
[personal profile] bluefall posting in [community profile] scans_daily
So I've been a little out of the loop lately, for various reasons. Given the current direction of DC, expect that to continue. But I managed to stick my head back in and check in with my girls this week, and a few brief moments stood out as worthy of comment. Or maybe I just feel a need to talk about comics before the coming reboot steals all motivation to ever do so again, idk.


From BoP #12, as Helena attempts to recruit the Question:


I'm not sure I've actually come out and said this, but I'm pretty much wholly on [personal profile] jarodrussell's team at this point wrt Oracle. So this isn't terribly surprising or annoying from my standard canon-rejecting Babsfan standpoint. But I'm kind of staring askance at the slight to Dinah and Helena, there. Particularly since Gail herself was the one who wrote the most recent and respectful portrayal of Dinah's detective moxie. Sure, neither of them is on Renee and Babs' level, but Helena's not going to come up to Diana and be like "what we don't have is a melee fighter" just because she and Dinah aren't kryptonian-class, y'know? I mean I suppose it's true that they don't have a detective, inasmuch as they, in fact, have three, but I don't think that's what Helena was supposed to be going for here.

From Wondy #612:






Looks like someone's been attending the Geoff Johns school of antitheism. Also, way too much Zeus. I was relatively cool with Psycho's role in #609 because it did at least make sense for the characters and their relationship and said something important about Diana's compassion and inspirational effect, but those justifications don't hold here and it's really not okay for Zeus to take Athena's place next to Aphrodite.

That said, kudos for noting Diana is largely a creature of hope (someone at least has managed to avoid the Geoff Johns school of ring assignation), and for the reasonably slashable Temi death a few pages prior. Since I'm highly suspicious they'll take the reboot opportunity to try to stick her back with Steve Trevor, I'm trying to appreciate this JMS clusterfuck as at least the last guaranteed portrayal of Diana as emotionally independent and potentially queer.

Speaking of, from Sirens #24:


And then Harley proceeds to kick her ass while she's off balance, which... I don't even... what? This is just stupid. Either Ivy and Harley are in (sick, twisted, abusive, supervillain-style, but nevertheless) love, or they aren't. If they aren't, they've just been friends all this time, and this taunt makes no sense. If they are, they've been shagging like demented but hot rabbits for years now, and Ivy's love for Harley isn't in question, and this taunt makes no sense. I mean it's not like I expect better from Sirens but this is just... not how you actually finally address Harley/Ivy in explicit canon.

And to end this post on a positive note, from Zatanna #14:


It's so weird to actually like something Beechen wrote. I mean, he still has no idea how Zatanna's powers work, but Zatanna in this issue is competent, in control, and clashes amusingly with Zach; Zach is the damsel-in-distress while Zee is never even on her back foot; the hero saves the day through quick thinking and an understanding of her opponent; the whole story is a quick, clean done-in-one; we even get a nod to a non-Western mythology. Do we know anything about Zee's coming fate post-reboot? It would be a real shame to lose this title.

Date: 2011-07-01 03:05 am (UTC)
mad: All your base are belong to Oracle (Oracle)
From: [personal profile] mad
1) Heh, I'm pretty sure when I read that BoP, I could hear the sounds of our collective *headdesk*-ing. I've been taking refuge in re-reading bits of NML lately.

2) Not having read this WW at all, I initially thought that cat was a photoshop for some reason.

3) I don't even care that much about Harley and Ivy as characters in the grand scheme of things, but aauuugh DC is so frustrating on this. All the creators like to flirt with this pairing (probably editorial too), and I'm pretty sure most readers would consider it canon or at least very plausible, so why not actually just do it?

4) I am weirded out by the use of actual thought bubbles in Zatanna. You really don't see those used in Big Two comics anymore.

Date: 2011-07-01 03:10 am (UTC)
mad: She-Ra (She-Ra!)
From: [personal profile] mad
re: 2) Wait, I tell a lie.

I totally read the issue that had this panel in it:

Wonder Woman is looking at some wonder woman dolls she is holding and saying _They... trouble me._ Someone off-panel replies _We have greater troubles at hand, sisters_

(#606, IIRC.)

Date: 2011-07-01 04:29 am (UTC)
mad: I AM THE LIZARD QUEEN! (Default)
From: [personal profile] mad
I KNOW!

And you can tie it into the stupid dolls bit from the David E Kelly pilot, not to mention this. AND IT IS ALL SO TROUBLING!

(Mind you, I've found myself using the phrase "babies, babies, babies" at work, but of course nobody knows I'm quoting Hippolyta.)

Date: 2011-07-01 05:18 am (UTC)
auggie18: (ManHug)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
One of the only things I actually liked about restrictions on gay couples back in the day is the creative subtle ways of showing affection you saw between the characters. Not that I'm not happy that we can see Kurt and his boyfriend macking on each other in Glee, but I've always kind of liked little gestures of romantic love that tend to get ignored in media portrayals of couples. Little things, like Willow and Tara sharing a head bump of love or, more recently, Kurt and his boyfriend just holding hands. It's stuff like that that lets you know that two characters have genuine affection for one another, that's there more to their relationship than just passionate lust. (This goes for both straight and gay characters. In my opinion, it was why Willow/Tara was much more popular than Buffy/Riley. It was a pretty straight forward case of intimacy vs sex.)


A lot of the time it feels like shows or comics add gay characters, particularly lesbians, as an attempt to titillate rather than as an exploration of sexuality. (Or hell, just as an aspect of a character.) And that's what it feels like they're doing here.


This comic ruins what I liked about Harley and Ivy relationship. They were together, but it was subtle. Nobody made a big deal about it. It undermines all those years of comfortable togetherness by making it seem like Ivy was attempting to seduce Harley or Harley was leading Ivy on just to take advantage of her.

I'm aware that I wrote a lot and I hope my point is clear. I've been misunderstood before when expressing my feelings on intimacy vs passion when it comes to gay couples. (I have the same feelings I have for straight couples. Intimacy is more important than passion.)

I think Grace/Thunder is probably one of the longer lasting lesbian relationships in the DCU, but it's been forever since I read the Outsiders, so no clue.

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