mistygeek: (Lady Blackhawk Punch!)
[personal profile] mistygeek posting in [community profile] scans_daily
There has been a Miss Victory post before, so I'm not really going to offer any set-up. Just two words...

Nazi Gorilla















From Captain Aero #15 (Jun 1944), Art by Nina Albright scans via digitalcomicmuseum.com, cleaned up by me.

Date: 2011-07-06 10:02 pm (UTC)
aaron_bourque: default (Default)
From: [personal profile] aaron_bourque
Nazi Gorilla

That should have been much more awesome.

Date: 2011-07-06 10:04 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
her mask disappeared! ah golden age :D

Date: 2011-07-06 10:15 pm (UTC)
fifthie: tastes the best (Default)
From: [personal profile] fifthie
I like this dame.

She's got moxie.

Date: 2011-07-06 10:18 pm (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
Ah, not as awesome as the one who hung out with Dr 13, Traci and I, Vampire.

Date: 2011-07-07 08:00 am (UTC)
thormonger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thormonger
Even better once he became a Nazi vampire gorilla. I do hope he pops up somewhere in the DCnU.

Date: 2011-07-06 10:24 pm (UTC)
feyandstrange: (Default)
From: [personal profile] feyandstrange
I don't know why I'm so bothered that the ape is wearing boots.

Date: 2011-07-07 01:18 am (UTC)
squirle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] squirle
Indeed. The boots were the most out of place thing in that first picture to me too. Nazi's and gorilla's? Both comic mainstays, only a matter of time before the two of them feature in one comic. But apes in boots? That's just bizarre!

Date: 2011-07-07 10:10 am (UTC)
baihu: (Default)
From: [personal profile] baihu
It actually makes him seem more naked!

Date: 2011-07-06 11:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fredneil.livejournal.com
Punctuation matters. "So, he's an acrobat too!" is Golden Age superhero dialogue. "So...? He's an acrobat too!" is a comic Yiddish accent and I don't think someone with a name like "Joan Wayne" is Jewish. Besides, Joan Wayne? Really?

Date: 2011-07-07 12:20 am (UTC)
aaron_bourque: default (Default)
From: [personal profile] aaron_bourque
Batman's aunt?

Date: 2011-07-07 02:12 am (UTC)
cleome45: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
Anglicized Jewish surnames aren't unheard of, y'know. Especially if you're trying to get a job in a time and place where there was likely discrimination against Jews.

Date: 2011-07-07 02:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fredneil.livejournal.com
That's true, though I'm not sure what her name would have been derived from, but blonde women with cute little turned up noses don't exactly scream "I'm Jewish " to me.

Now, Ella, on the other hand, I would buy as Jewish, even with her hair dyed light brown for her night out.

Date: 2011-07-07 02:27 am (UTC)
cleome45: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
[shrug]

There's no one way to "look Jewish." There are blond and red-haired Jews. There are even Jews who ~gasp!~ aren't White people.

See also: "Mary Champagne" in Katherine Anne Porter's Ship of Fools.

Date: 2011-07-07 02:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fredneil.livejournal.com
Thank you for your recommendation, but since I have both my family history and decades of familiarity with Jewish issues shaping my knowledge of the Jewish people, I really don't need to reread Ship of Fools to find out that there are Jews who don't look like the typical Ashkenazi of popular culture. However, comic books of the forties definitely qualify as popular culture and that depiction of Jews is what I was referring to.

As for your "There are even Jews who ~gasp!~ aren't White people," there are people who don't consider any Jews to be white. At the time this was published, half the Jews in Europe were killed for not being white enough, which is one of the reasons why you'll never hear me identify myself as white.

It's ironic, in just about every other forum I go to, I've had to explain to someone that, no Ashkenzai Jews are not descended from the Khazars and that Ashkenazi Jews are linked genetically to Jews (and non-Jews) in the Middle East, yet here you think I need to be told that not all Jews are white. I probably should thank you since we seem to be fighting the same battle.

Date: 2011-07-07 03:04 am (UTC)
cleome45: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
...However, comic books of the forties definitely qualify as popular culture and that depiction of Jews is what I was referring to...

Whatever. I thought half the point of this board was to overthink everything in search of various subtexts. I kind of thought that's why a quirk of punctuation would be discussed in the first place. I just find it kind of funny/sad that it would somehow be easier to accept a talking gorilla in a work of fiction than a blond Jewish person.

...I probably should thank you since we seem to be fighting the same battle.

You should probably try it using a tad less condescension next time.

Also, as an American in the current era, I'd personally feel like an idiot not referring to myself as a White person, but have it your way.

Date: 2011-07-07 03:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fredneil.livejournal.com
I just find it kind of funny/sad that it would somehow be easier to accept a talking gorilla in a work of fiction than a blond Jewish person

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, since there's neither an actual talking gorilla or a blond Jewish person in this story. I said, and still believe, that it would be very unlikely for an artist of that era to depict a Jewish person in that way, something very different from saying "there's a blond Jew in the story, that's unbelievable."

Now, I could be wrong about what the artists of that period did, but I can't think of any Jewish comic book characters from the era who were blonde and had small, upturned noses. Can you?



Also, as an American in the current era, I'd personally feel like an idiot not referring to myself as a White person, but have it your way.

Perhaps you should spend more time thinking about what the concept of "whiteness" actually means and the historical context, then. Are the people I know who would be counted as "white Hispanics" on the census also idiots for not considering themselves white?

Date: 2011-07-07 03:39 am (UTC)
cleome45: (founders1)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
Yeah? Well, perhaps you should take your condescending attitude and cram it where the sun doesn't shine, Mister. I know plenty about historical context, thankyouverymuch. Not everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant of history, just because they don't agree with you about what it means in the present time.

I think I'll take a pass on talking to you at all in the future. You are welcome to the last word, but don't expect me to read any of it. So long.

Date: 2011-07-07 03:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fredneil.livejournal.com
Not everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant of history, just because they don't agree with you about what it means in the present time.

Interesting point coming from someone who suggested that someone who disagreed with him about what it meant should "feel like an idiot."

Date: 2011-07-07 02:51 am (UTC)
jkcarrier: me, at my old office (Default)
From: [personal profile] jkcarrier
"I'm not sure what her name would have been derived from"

"Joan Weiner", perhaps? ;)

Date: 2011-07-07 02:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fredneil.livejournal.com
I didn't think of that, though where does Joan come from? I'm related to a Jeanette from that generation, but that would be changed to Jean.

Date: 2011-07-07 04:58 am (UTC)
kamino_neko: Tedd from El Goonish Shive. Drawn by Dan Shive, coloured by Kamino Neko. (Uuuh...)
From: [personal profile] kamino_neko
Jeanette is no more a 'Jewish' name than Joan. They're both feminine versions of 'John' - Joan being English, Jeanette being French and diminutive ('little Jeanne').

Date: 2011-07-07 06:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fredneil.livejournal.com
That would make them both Jewish names, then. since Jonathon is an Anglicized version of a Hebrew name, albeit one that had a lot of crossover appeal, so I guess I was wrong and that, theoretically at least, there's no reason why a Jewish woman wouldn't be named Joan. I wonder how prevalent the two were?

That's all conjecture on my part, since I have no way of knowing why my aunt's parents named her what they did, but from what I've been told, that generation of my family was pretty observant so I'm guessing they would have given her a name with some Jewish connection. (Looking over some old census records, she was the oldest of five siblings and her name stands out as somewhat exotic sounding compared to the others for the time-she would have been born around 1915. That's probably more than you cared to know, but I found it interesting. Probably no one I could ask about it. The last sibling passed away a few months ago.)

The family above them on the record has a Molly who was born in Poland. That's not something I would have expected to see. My guess is that her name was changed when she immigrated. That happened to my grandmother. There's also a Wanda on that list, but unfortunately her husband is Otto and not Pietro.

Date: 2011-07-07 12:14 pm (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
Johanna?

Date: 2011-07-07 02:16 am (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
So, his plan was to blow up the theater.

Why exactly did he need a gorilla to do this? Not that I'm complaining, but how exactly is he going to justify this on his expense report.

Or did he just go "fuck it, this is a suicide mission, and if I'm going out, I'M GOING OUT WITH A GORILLA DAMMIT!"

Date: 2011-07-07 02:29 am (UTC)
cleome45: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
"I'M GOING OUT WITH A GORILLA DAMMIT!"

Sounds more like a reaaaaaaaally cracky Kirby romance comic that nobody ever talks about...

Date: 2011-07-07 02:41 am (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
Sounds like what The Brain told the Doom Patrol when they found out about him and Mallah.

Date: 2011-07-07 03:14 am (UTC)
cleome45: (violet1*)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
I so want to see somebody draw that as a Fifties comics cover. Young Weird Secret Villain True Romance Stories or something...
(deleted comment)

(frozen)

Date: 2011-07-07 06:37 am (UTC)
sianmink: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sianmink
feeling jewed?

:|

(frozen)

Date: 2011-07-07 12:23 pm (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
Okay, for the record, wasn't aware what that was ALLEGEDLY short for. No reason to get in a tiff.

Here's the revised version.

It wasn't even a real Gorilla? It was a guy in a suit? What a ripoff.

(frozen) Mod Note

Date: 2011-07-07 01:55 pm (UTC)
angelophile: (Molly - Mod Hat)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
This thread has been frozen following a complaint and is being discussed by the mod team.

Date: 2011-07-07 05:34 am (UTC)
proteus_lives: (Default)
From: [personal profile] proteus_lives
NAZI GORILLA HAS NO NEED FOR PANTS.

JUST BOOTS.

Date: 2011-07-07 07:57 am (UTC)
biod: Cute Galactus (Default)
From: [personal profile] biod
Together with Donald Duck and the Hulk he can form an entirely clothed person!

Date: 2011-07-07 10:11 am (UTC)
baihu: (Default)
From: [personal profile] baihu
Yet all wear towels when they come out of the shower...

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