starwolf_oakley: (Default)
[personal profile] starwolf_oakley posting in [community profile] scans_daily
E!On-line has an amusing look at how, in X-MEN FIRST CLASS, Professor X and Magneto are totally gay for each other.

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b250387_magneto_professor_x_had_sex_movies_this.html

For a slightly more "in continuity" look at the matter...



I'm guessing this FLASHBACK story in X-MEN MINUS 1 is the first time Charles and Erik have met each other since the flashback in UNCANNY X-MEN #161. That issue was pretty much it regarding the Xavier/Magneto friendship everyone gushed over. They knew each other in Israel for a while, they saved Gabrielle Haller from HYDRA, then Magneto took a load of Nazi gold and flew off.





I'm not going to make excuses for something as monstrous as this, but the narrator may be making things simplistic. Was it "They are inferior, so we must kill them"? Or was it "Those inferior people are why things got so bad for Germany in the 1920s and 1930s, so we must kill them"?



I never fully understood Amelia Voght. Or at least her "Face Heel Turn" from thinking "the X-Men are a bad idea and mutants should hide their powers" to "Magneto is totally right and we should rule and/or kill the humans."





Someone smarter than me once wrote a story where an original character said that Magneto's beliefs about ruling the humans to "protect his superior race" are a "strange position for a man who's lived through the Holocaust."



Magneto tends to be on a sliding scale, between "mutants should get their own homeland" to "mutants should rule the humans" to "kill all humans." And even when he GETS his own homeland, he still wants to start a war with humanity. It's possible he's more "mellow" these days since there simply aren't enough mutants left to rule the world.



For certain fans, there's a question of how "bad" Magneto should be. Does he want to rule the world? Does he want to kill all humans? Does he want to create a mutant homeland, either in Genosha or in a huge space station over Earth? And how much villainy is too much?

Date: 2011-07-13 01:58 am (UTC)
brooms: the chance of life afresh annihilating me (otp)
From: [personal profile] brooms
I'm just like, "Dude, they've been shown as being gay for each other in the comics for YEARS".

I've never been a X-Men person, so I've been doing some XMFC-inspired backreading and honestly? I really don't see it.

I see it in First Class very clearly, but not in the source material. They come off like estranged brothers in the comics to me.

Date: 2011-07-13 05:06 am (UTC)
brooms: the chance of life afresh annihilating me (otp)
From: [personal profile] brooms
I don't know, I think it's just a consequence of the medium and the amount of time available. I feel like they kind of have to amp the drama in the movies and make the leads' emotional connection larger than life to make it tragic. Otherwise the audience maybe wouldn't care that these two dudes who had known each other for only a couple of months were going their separate ways.

There's more time in the comics, we see them having other meaningful relationships, including of the romantic variety, it's a much less ambiguous picture.

And I'm very glad Lee decided not to go on with the brothers thing. It wouldn't be as powerful.

LOL, that E! post was gold

Date: 2011-07-12 07:52 am (UTC)
jazzypom: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jazzypom
And the fanboy replies on the site got crazy. It's interesting that this sort of relationship finds itself in a big tent movie, instead of the art house movies.

Mind, blown.

Date: 2011-07-12 08:05 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] keeva
Someone smarter than me once wrote a story where an original character said that Magneto's beliefs about ruling the humans to "protect his superior race" are a "strange position for a man who's lived through the Holocaust."

If you're that confused, you probably haven't been paying much attention to Palestine for the last few decades.

Date: 2011-07-12 10:56 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] don1138
Motto. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction.

Date: 2011-07-12 12:10 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arilou_skiff
I've always thought Magneto's position depended on how good he felt any particular day.

His cornerstone is mutant survival. If that can be achieved without killing all humans, fine. But he's got a pretty deep-seated belief that it cannot, that ultimately in order to ensure mutant survival humanity has to go: Either directly or slowly (like in House of M)

He'd be completely happy with going away somewhere and letting humanity to it's own devices, but as far as he can tell humanity and mutantkind are trying to occupy the same space.

Magneto's attitude isn't really hatred for humankind but rather paranoia taken to incredible extremes: Were a potential threat cannot even be allowed to exist.

He reminds me of the Ur-Quan (which I suspect isn't surprising consider the nerdiness of those who made that game...)

So Magneto ultimately has noble, or at least understandable, motives, but he takes them beyond reason. This as opposed to Dr. Doom who I always see as a bundle of horrifying character traits and ambitions that somehow end up balancing each other in a way that his actions seem occasionally noble.

Magneto would kill humanity to protect his species. Doom would save it for his own ego.

Date: 2011-07-12 12:10 pm (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
"I'm not going to make excuses for something as monstrous as this, but the narrator may be making things simplistic. Was it "They are inferior, so we must kill them"? Or was it "Those inferior people are why things got so bad for Germany in the 1920s and 1930s, so we must kill them"?
"

I'm not seeing the two as mutually exclusive, nor are they contradictory to what the narrator (Xavier, here) says. Antisemitism was nothing new when the Nazis made it a platform...but the systematic approach they took to it (and the horrible ends to which they pursued it) was. All of the horror of the camps would not have been possible if those involved did not convince themselves that the inmates of the camps were less than human (be they Jew, gypsy, homosexual or dissident). Once you de-humanize someone, the unthinkable becomes thinkable. It's clear that the Nazis used the claim that Jews were responsible for the economic woes of the 1930s and that communists were responsible for the political upheavals. Create an enemy and then you have someone to rally against.

If you want to see something really chilling, watch the 2001 movie "Conspiracy" with Kenneth Brannagh. It's a dramatization of the Wannsee Conference. With dialogue taken from the actual minutes of the conference, you can hear the Nazis plot out the "Final Solution" to the "Jewish Problem". How one man advocates the death camps based on their success with mobile gas trucks, while another says they have to murder the Jews LEGALLY, to show the world how just and fair they are. The total 'matter-of-fact' nature of how they discuss planning a genocide is shocking.

As for Magneto and the Master Race bit...well, two things: one, part of Magneto's character is that he has become what he most hated; two, Mutants generally ARE superior to humans, so he probably feels that he's not in conflict in that way.

Date: 2011-07-12 12:33 pm (UTC)
greenmask: (Default)
From: [personal profile] greenmask
Or at least her "Face Heel Turn" from thinking "the X-Men are a bad idea and mutants should hide their powers" to "Magneto is totally right and we should rule and/or kill the humans."

They seem to go hand in hand to me! She disliked Xavier's X-Men plan because she thought it would draw too much attention to mutants and exacerbate the current problems that mutants faced. As a person who had been victim to mutation-based bullying and oppression she thought that 'publicity for mutants' would mean 'the whole WORLD shits on mutants'. When it comes to shit or be shat on (as the growing awareness of mutants in the MU at large started to lead to), many people would rather be above than below. :/

Survival is less that rational.

Date: 2011-07-12 02:52 pm (UTC)
whitesycamore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] whitesycamore
"As a person who had been victim to mutation-based bullying and oppression..."

Oh my, I just skimmed this and for a moment there I thought YOU were speaking as a person who had been victim to mutation-based bullying.

Even worse, my first thought was not "nah, must have read that wrong" but "wow, I really want to ask her for details - I must find a way to phrase my question sensitively!"

I am deranged.

Date: 2011-07-12 02:54 pm (UTC)
greenmask: (Default)
From: [personal profile] greenmask
X] X] X]

Date: 2011-07-12 04:14 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
hey we are all mutants here :D

also... just reading the article made me feel like i need a cigarret and i don't smoke! :D

Date: 2011-07-13 02:38 am (UTC)
crabby_lioness: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crabby_lioness
Except for the clones.

Date: 2011-07-13 08:29 am (UTC)
salad_barbarian: The Tick! (The Tick!)
From: [personal profile] salad_barbarian
I was shunted here from an alternate time line.

Date: 2011-07-12 02:37 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
heh, having not seen the movie (i know i know, i need to get on that) even i can see from this scene that they are dripping with sex for each other.... I mean originally Charles and Erik planned on getting a home and raising a family together... (hehe) okay seriously though. There is definately UST in this (and in many comics, hell at times they act like an old married/divorcced couple) even with out the influence of this board i have ALWAYS been able to see that. they are teh Batman and Superman of Marvel

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